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#3227170 - 03/07/11 05:32 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Quote:
Can I just cut the wires between the circuitboard and potentiometers, and solder the wires to the hallsensor instead..?


Yes, but observe that pinout in HALL sensor is different from pots.

Pots: +5v - SIGNAL - GND (invert +5v wires and GND to inverted response).

HALL (A1302 - front view): +5v - GND - SIGNAL (invert wires to get inverted response is NOT allowed).
http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/A1302-BU0836.gif

So, check the datasheet of HALL that you buy for correctly pinout.
A1302: http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/A1302.pdf

Sokol1

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#3227176 - 03/07/11 05:36 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Sokol1]  
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Brandano Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1
[quote].. (invert wires to get inverted response is NOT allowed)...

But for that you can easily invert the magnets, especially with the bic pen design. So, before closing things up, see if the axes move the way you want, and if they do not turn the magnets 180 degrees smile

#3227638 - 03/08/11 01:02 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Originally Posted By: Gene Buckle
If memory serves, I was getting a range of about .13 to 4.93 volts out of the one I used in the video.

julian265, considering that most will use the "middle" 90 degrees of travel on something like this, is the fall off at the ends of the travel _really_ going to matter that much? Considering what the typical setup will lose just in mechanical slop, I suspect the difference would get lost in the noise. smile

The Plasma MM2 is an _awesome_ device. Unfortunately Beta Innovations is no longer in business. Something bent him sideways and he closed his doors - I've never gotten an explanation. The software will allow adjustment of the response curve though. Eventually I'm going to get the Arduino firmware written to allow you to use an Arduino Uno (or similar) as a control input device. That will also have the ability to tweak the response curves.

g.


It really sucks when a good product disappears off the market!

If you're going to use only the middle 90 degrees, then I agree that the loss of linearity won't be noticeable in-game - however if you do this with your current setup, you'll only be using the voltage range between ~.73 and ~4.3. This is fine if you are happy with the resolution that you will be left with, as long as you calibrate it to still reach 0 and 100% in-game. I am under the impression that most sticks don't have 90 degrees of travel though, and long-throw sticks use even less.

Therefore you match the sensitivity of your sensor to the axis that it will measure (so it reads minimum and maximum voltage at the extents of movement), you can directly attach it (thus avoiding cogs and levers), and not have any mechanical slop at all - this was pretty much the reasoning that motivated me to build my stick, along with non-wearing, non-spiking sensors.

#3227643 - 03/08/11 01:06 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Bluedeath]  
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Originally Posted By: Bluedeath
since these sensors are able to accept 6v power would this increase range? (linearity is already OK and centering is also, but I'm kinda curious)


I'm not really sure what would happen. Different things might happen if you powered your A/D circuit with 6V as well, compared to just the sensor. I think it would depend on the design of the A/D circuit, and how well the A/D would work with something that can exceed its own supply voltage.

#3227646 - 03/08/11 01:11 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Bluedeath]  
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Originally Posted By: Bluedeath
I ordered some A1302 from EBAY it turned out that they were china manufactured clones (i checked from the markings and thay are similar to allegro by spec sheet) ,but they work really well the only strange thing is that i can't get full travel in other words by using a 12 bit A/D i only get around 690 to 3700 (wich is anyhow fairly good by being more than 3000 discrete positions) instead of ideal 0 to 4096, the sensor is placed right in the middle of the "BIC assembly" and i used 5x5x5 neodimium magnets I tested by spinning the magnet assembly freely 360° several times and i never exceed thoose values. I laso tried to increase flux by adding magnets but the result not change. Im already satisfied with this setup but i was wondering if this is normal.


One thing I forgot to mention - you can get 3000 steps over 180 degrees, but what can you get within the extents of the axis that you intend to measure? In other words if you are only measuring +/-30 degrees, you'll only have 1500 steps.

#3227761 - 03/08/11 04:24 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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f15sim Offline
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10 bit ADCs only give you 0..1023, which is "typical" for off the shelf joysticks. I know that Leo Bodnar offers a 12 bit interface - that should provide a 4096 "step" resolution if memory serves. Considering in the "old" days, you had 255 steps, even 10 bit is luxury. biggrin

g.


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#3227853 - 03/08/11 08:48 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: julian265]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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@ Julian. The range that i get using the TM TQS travel is not full but is close to 2500~2800 steps, more than enough, I still have to build the assembly for the joystick I'll send some results when it's ready .

Last edited by Bluedeath; 03/08/11 08:49 AM.

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#3228226 - 03/08/11 05:29 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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This guy get 0 to 5 v output with this circuit:



HALL Sensor is reused from 5" or 1.44" floppy drive.

Magnets seen like ferrite ones...

Trin pot allow easy find 2,5v center and adjust gain.

Google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...55fcbdf2ddd393d

Edit: Notice that magnet travel in this setut is ~40 degrees (+20, -20)

Sokol1


Last edited by Sokol1; 03/08/11 05:33 PM.
#3228408 - 03/08/11 08:52 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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f15sim Offline
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@Brandano: A flux ring could be made of a short bit of steel tubing of the right inside diameter pretty easily. I don't know if there would be any advantage here considering the strength of the magnets.

g.


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#3229654 - 03/09/11 08:51 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Brandano Offline
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It would concentrate the flux between the facing poles by providing a shorter, more permeable path between the free poles. With a less sensitive sensor this would mean needing a smaller angle to reach the saturation extremes, and therefore a more linear response though on a smaller range of movement. However, if you already get the proper signal swing for the proper angle adding a flux ring would be counter-productive. The other advantage to a flux ring is that it will shield the free poles, reducing the stray magnetic field, and reducing the possibility that one sensor will affect the reading of another nearby. It will also make it harder for it to pick up stray iron filings... your workspace looks very tidy, but in my case that's a realistic problem.

#3229665 - 03/09/11 08:59 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: julian265]  
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Brandano Offline
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Originally Posted By: julian265

...
According to the spec sheet, the 1301/2 (like the 1321) output can be between 0.2 and 4.7V - which means you can't get the A/D converter to read less than 160 or more than 3850, even when you have plenty of magnetic flux. This just needs to be calibrated out in the operating system, unless you want to use a signal amplifier to get a true 0 to 5 V output.


Another possible approach would be to replace the positive and negative rail references for the ADC with values that allow to scan the whole range. The feasibility of this will depend on the ADC used, though. I believe it might be possible, but perhaps not for everyone. I tend to agree with Gene, if my joystick is fully swung in one direction it means I am not looking for fine input.

#3229715 - 03/09/11 09:37 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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f15sim Offline
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I'm aware of what a flux ring does Brandano. smile My supposition was that it wouldn't likely provide any benefit in my case due to the proximity of the magnets to the sensor and their strength. If I was using ceramic or "standard" magnets, then a flux ring may be of some benefit.

g.


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#3229758 - 03/09/11 10:14 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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I think the only advantage to the flux ring is ease of mounting. Stick a bolt through it. Little surprised it's not a nylon bolt though.

#3230319 - 03/10/11 02:08 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Sokol1]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1
This guy get 0 to 5 v output with this circuit:



HALL Sensor is reused from 5" or 1.44" floppy drive.

Magnets seen like ferrite ones...

Trin pot allow easy find 2,5v center and adjust gain.

Google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...55fcbdf2ddd393d

Edit: Notice that magnet travel in this setut is ~40 degrees (+20, -20)

Sokol1



ANy change that someone is knows what are the resistorr values and what are the specific models of components needed?


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"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
#3230785 - 03/10/11 10:44 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Last edited by Sokol1; 03/10/11 10:54 PM.
#3231197 - 03/11/11 01:37 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Alternative to HALL sensor.

http://www.eetindia.co.in/ARTICLES/2002DEC/A/2002DEC11_AMD_AN08.PDF?SOURCES=DOWNLOAD

The advantage of this magnetoresistive sensor is that is not affected by near metal parts,
and work well with ferrite magnets.

Cons - cost more than HALL sensor, since need a amplifier, build a PCB...

Sokol1

#3232002 - 03/12/11 02:15 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Ltfransky Offline
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The KMZ41 and UZZ9000 have been replaced by the KMA200. It has the amp on-board.


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#3232378 - 03/12/11 02:56 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Ltfransky,

You know how calculate the resistor values to desirable angle?

Russian guys use KMZ41 plus MCP601/2, each cost about ~2,00.



Unfortunately the only place where I find theses items is in mouser.com
but the shipping for my address is U$ 40!!! Local Farnell dont have. frown

Sokol1

#3232849 - 03/12/11 11:39 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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f15sim Offline
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FYI, the A1321LUA-T is still available from Newark Electronics and some other vendors. The link is:
http://www.newark.com/allegro-microsyste...?CMP=AFC-HEARST

They're $1.62 each in single quantities and they've got 2800 in stock.

julian265, would it be worth it to order these as replacements for the A1302's that I'm using now?

tnx.

g.


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#3232869 - 03/13/11 12:23 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Newark kills you on shipping. They have good prices, but they sure make it up in other places.

Actually Sokol1, I'll have to look into it. I'm not sure


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