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#3204285 - 02/10/11 06:41 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) ***** [Re: Hpasp]  
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Cosmo Offline
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Great sim, great work.

I have a question regarding the Vega. Are different aspects of a target aircraft relative to the square pair FC-Radar taken into the simulation of the pulse-doppler NCTR feature?

Thanks

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3204860 - 02/11/11 05:16 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Several new questions, but for now I'll only ask one.

Do you factor the amount of time required for the rail loader/truck loader to move into loading position, and then move away from the launch area into your reload time? Or was this deemed insignificant to the operation of the Gammon and excluded?

I'm still toying with the idea of a graphic AAR, but I haven't sorted everything into enough of a coherent thought to make an example. However, I think you'll like my new idea as it doesn't involve 3D. hahaha

#3205116 - 02/11/11 03:35 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: NaiseFail]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Do you factor the amount of time required for the rail loader/truck loader to move into loading position, and then move away from the launch area into your reload time? Or was this deemed insignificant to the operation of the Gammon and excluded?

It is faithfully represented.
(Even time given to the K3 operator, to push the "prepare missile" switch. You can notice it, that the missiles aren't prepared in the same time.)

thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3205372 - 02/11/11 07:59 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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StartbahnWest Offline
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Hello, first thing i want to thank you Hpasp for the execellnt work, the SAM-Simulator provides the right amount of sim and fun!
The next thing, i want to ask, what was the reason programming the Volhov first and not the Dvina?

So a few words to the Vega System: Love that thing! Superb range and it has good chances of intercept a stealth target like the F-117A:
Quote:
48:33, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-3] simulating F-117A Stealth launched

53:23, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 17km
Target azimuth: 54
Target elevation: 54
Target angular speed: 228m/s (0,8 Mach)
Target altitude: 14,1km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strenght: 37dB


53:31, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 16km
Target azimuth: 51
Target elevation: 59
Target angular speed: 186m/s (0,6 Mach)
Target altitude: 14,1km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strenght: 37,4dB


53:59, Missile exploded
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-3] simulating F-117A Stealth killed by SAM. (miss distance: 37m)

54:06, Missile exploded
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-3] simulating F-117A Stealth killed by SAM. (miss distance: 111m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 5min 29sec

I'm feeling like Homer Simpson: Klick biggrin

#3205476 - 02/11/11 09:42 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: StartbahnWest]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Originally Posted By: StartbahnWest
Hello, first thing i want to thank you Hpasp for the execellnt work, the SAM-Simulator provides the right amount of sim and fun!
The next thing, i want to ask, what was the reason programming the Volhov first and not the Dvina?


I'm feeling like Homer Simpson: Klick biggrin

I think that for him the manuals and sites of the Volhov were easier to find/look than the Dvina ones... Maybe because (afaik) Hungary operated the Volhov, but didn't the Dvina (or did it, for much less time).

#3205483 - 02/11/11 09:53 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: StartbahnWest]  
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The next thing, i want to ask, what was the reason programming the Volhov first and not the Dvina?

Just remember, that Dvina is the "export" version of the Volhov.
Dvina was received by the arab countries, and Vietnam, while Volhov was used by the WarPact, and the Soviet Union.
Dvina was not deployed in Hungary when I started programming, so the first high quality photos were made of the Volhov training complex in 2005.

Than I met the first (and the best tester), who was FCO on Volhov, then Battery commander at a Neva unit.
In 2007 I was able to shot the required shots for NEVA, and the idea of a several system SAM Simulator begun.

In 2009, the first package were released (containing Volhov and Neva), and the English website were created.

In 2010, I had the possibility to take pictures of the KRUG system, allowed by the Hungarian 12. Arrabona SAM regiment.
It was released in the same year.

Before the end of 2010, I had the opportunity to shot the required pictures for the VEGA, and the Shilka sim, at the same day...
... what a day it was!!!
thumbsup

2011, the Vega released, and I had the opportunity to shot finally the Dvina.

So to wrap up, the Dvina was the last system I could spend the required 2~3 hours in it.

Just to decode:
SA-75MK Dvina, SA-2F
S-75M3 Volhov, SA-2E
S-125M Neva, SA-3B
2K11M1 KRUG-M1, SA-4B
S-200VE Vega-E, SA-5B

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/11/11 10:01 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3205488 - 02/11/11 09:58 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: StartbahnWest]  
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Hpasp Offline
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So a few words to the Vega System: Love that thing! Superb range and it has good chances of intercept a stealth target like the F-117A:

Here they are discussing how to shoot the B2...
... with the S-200D Dubna system (SA-5C)

http://narod.ru/disk/2674666001/%D0%BF%D...B0%29.djvu.html

(on page 54-55)
seehearspeak

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/11/11 10:03 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3205906 - 02/12/11 12:48 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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StartbahnWest Offline
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Okay, now i understand why you started with the more complex Volhov. Smile2
Quote:
Here they are discussing how to shoot the B2...
... with the S-200D Dubna system (SA-5C)
At 10 km altitude up to 150 km against non-jamming B2? eek
I found the table at the pages 18-19 useful, because it provides a good comparision between the different kinds of missles, that are being used.

And another two questions. Its about the searching methods. How can i opitmize the circular searching method of the Square Pair against a stealth target? And why drops the sector search the vertical elevation always to zero degrees when it starts to scan?

Edit:
My best result against a stealth target so far:
Quote:
06:37, Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-3] simulating F-117A Stealth launched

11:07, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 20km
Target azimuth: 64
Target elevation: 43
Target angular speed: 339m/s (1,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 14km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strenght: 35,5dB


11:41, Missile exploded
Practice target RM-217 Zvezda [program-3] simulating F-117A Stealth killed by SAM. (miss distance: 31m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 5min 20sec

When the F-117A jams the cm wavelenght i always score a hit, when its jamming the Tall-King radar i have big troubles to find it at all, even if i preset the distance, the vertical elevation and the doppler speed of the Square Pair, for example 35 km, ~ 25 vertical elevation and doppler speed around 400 m/s and start a circle search i cant find it... sigh

Last edited by StartbahnWest; 02/12/11 07:03 PM.
#3206083 - 02/12/11 06:33 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: StartbahnWest]  
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Hpasp Offline
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At 10 km attitude up to 150 km against non-jamming B2?

Please be aware, that in real life, the Stealth planes, NEVER JAM!
thumbsup

How can i opitmize the circular searching method of the Square Pair against a stealth target?

If the target is further than 100km, switch to narrow beam.
If the target is closer than 100km, switch to wide beam.

And why drops the sector search the vertical elevation always to zero degrees when it starts to scan?
That is the maximum range.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3206094 - 02/12/11 06:57 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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StartbahnWest Offline
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Germany
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
At 10 km attitude up to 150 km against non-jamming B2?

Please be aware, that in real life, the Stealth planes, NEVER JAM!
thumbsup
Hehe, smart desicion since there is chance that this vehicles are somewhere around the target area in position piggy

Quote:

If the target is further than 100km, switch to narrow beam.
If the target is closer than 100km, switch to wide beam.
I act always like the bible, i mean the manual, says. biggrin But maybe i just overlooked some factors...


Quote:

And why drops the sector search the vertical elevation always to zero degrees when it starts to scan?
That is the maximum range.

Thank you for the answer. smile

#3508994 - 02/01/12 09:54 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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I know that I'm being stubborn regarding the SA-5 but I do strongly believe that there's something wrong with the SA-5 and this time I think it may be something related to it's flight patch (and NOT due to the fuse like I previously thought).
I have what I believe an evidence that something is inded wrong regarding the SA-5 missile flight path -> Following Lonewolf's sugestion I started to use the P-14 radar to "keep a look" at my launched missiles and when playing the "1985 - Op. Giant Reach" and firing against an incoming SR-71, I noticed this everytime I play this mission in this same situation:
1- I fired one missile at the incoming SR-71 using the "Adquire After Launch" mode.
2- The SR-71 turned on it's jammer which was expectable which will cause my previously lauched missile to loose it's target and miss which again was expectable, so NO problem here!
3- But the problem is when I fire the all other missiles using the "Home on Jam" mode -> ALL missile WILL FAIL because they simply DON'T FOLLOW the target and ALL MISSILES will follow the SAME EXACT northern "imaginary" route, like this picture clearly shows:



As you can see in picture ALL MISSILES launched in "Home on Jam" mode will follow the indicated flight path in the picture, completly ignoring the target's jammer direction at all! And with this I mean that this isn't one missile or two that for some random reason will loose it's target - I mean all missiles WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTIONS will follow THAT WIERD PATH!


I hope this feedback helps somehow.

And BTW: Hpasp what you think of this?

#3509241 - 02/02/12 06:24 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: ricnunes]  
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Hpasp Offline
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I know that I'm being stubborn regarding the SA-5 but I do strongly believe that there's something wrong with the SA-5 and this time I think it may be something related to it's flight patch (and NOT due to the fuse like I previously thought).
I have what I believe an evidence that something is inded wrong regarding the SA-5 missile flight path -> Following Lonewolf's sugestion I started to use the P-14 radar to "keep a look" at my launched missiles and when playing the "1985 - Op. Giant Reach" and firing against an incoming SR-71, I noticed this everytime I play this mission in this same situation:
1- I fired one missile at the incoming SR-71 using the "Adquire After Launch" mode.
2- The SR-71 turned on it's jammer which was expectable which will cause my previously lauched missile to loose it's target and miss which again was expectable, so NO problem here!
3- But the problem is when I fire the all other missiles using the "Home on Jam" mode -> ALL missile WILL FAIL because they simply DON'T FOLLOW the target and ALL MISSILES will follow the SAME EXACT northern "imaginary" route, like this picture clearly shows:


Vega is quite a complex (confusing) system, and Im happy that somebody is getting deep into it.
Here are the things, that I used to forget, and screw up an engagement.

Before missile launch...
"Z"-screen
Do you have RPC GOTOV, D ZONA indicators green?

GSN settings:
Vcr<0 - against targets less than radial speed of 100m/s (track in 3 coordinates)
V POLETE - against low flying targets, when you have RPC, but no GSN lock (track in 3 coordinates)
POISK V VIKL - against jamming target (track in 2 coordinates only)
POISK VKL - against normal target (track in 3 coordinates)

When you track a target, and it starts jamming, the Plamya computer do target path prolongation.
"C" screen, PROLONG red indication. You need to reacquire the target!
Push the PROLONG VIKL red button, and do a proper jamming target tracking in AS2.

Than launch only.

There can be hidden bugs at the Vega, as it is the least tested system compared to the Volhov, but Im happy if we can find these out.
(3DAAR will also help this)

thumbsup

Quote:
14:00 28th of March, 1985.
SR-71 Operation Giant Reach.

S-200VE Vega-E


10:23, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 295km
Target azimuth: 286
Target elevation: 2
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 6,7dB


10:59, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 270km
Target azimuth: 286
Target elevation: 3
Target angular speed: 869m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


11:21, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 255km
Target azimuth: 286
Target elevation: 3
Target angular speed: 869m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


27:42, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 196km
Target azimuth: 285
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 842m/s (3 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


28:00, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 187km
Target azimuth: 284
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 768m/s (2,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


28:19, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 177km
Target azimuth: 282
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 668m/s (2,3 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


28:23, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu hit by SAM. (miss distance: 189m)

28:37, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 169km
Target azimuth: 279
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 551m/s (1,9 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


28:52, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 245m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 4min 3sec




Last edited by Hpasp; 02/02/12 06:34 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3509570 - 02/02/12 06:10 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,831
ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Vega is quite a complex (confusing) system, and Im happy that somebody is getting deep into it.
Here are the things, that I used to forget, and screw up an engagement.

Before missile launch...
"Z"-screen
Do you have RPC GOTOV, D ZONA indicators green?

GSN settings:
Vcr<0 - against targets less than radial speed of 100m/s (track in 3 coordinates)
V POLETE - against low flying targets, when you have RPC, but no GSN lock (track in 3 coordinates)
POISK V VIKL - against jamming target (track in 2 coordinates only)
POISK VKL - against normal target (track in 3 coordinates)

When you track a target, and it starts jamming, the Plamya computer do target path prolongation.
"C" screen, PROLONG red indication. You need to reacquire the target!
Push the PROLONG VIKL red button, and do a proper jamming target tracking in AS2.

Than launch only.

There can be hidden bugs at the Vega, as it is the least tested system compared to the Volhov, but Im happy if we can find these out.
(3DAAR will also help this)

thumbsup



Well, I was not firing with "D ZONE" light ON (I was NOT waiting for it to turn ON). I noticed that when I fired with the "D ZONE" light on that the missiles seem inded to fly towards the right direction (towards the target) but in my case I only get the "D ZONE" light on when the SR-71 passes its 3 minute mark (almost at the 4 minute mark) in the plotting table and when I read your AAR and after seeing your plotting table I've seen that you hit the SR-71 just a little bit after the 3 minute mark which means that it was your second and third missiles (the first one was not fired on "Home on Jam") that hit the SR-71 which in my case (playing with current version v923.3) launching missiles with "Home on Jam" at the same distance that you launched your second and third missiles is ONLY POSSIBLE with the "D ZONE" light OFF BUT if I launch the missiles with "Home on Jam" and with the "D ZONE" light OFF the missiles will NEVER follow the target (they will follow that fligth path that I marked in my previously posted picture).

So, I want to ask: I which version was that mission of yours played? With the "official" v923.3 or are you using a non-released ("beta") version of SAM simulator?


For what's worth I've been following all the procedures mentioned in the manual when engaging "Home on Jam" targets (and any other kind of target for that matter).
Anyway, Here's one of my AARs:
Quote:

14:00 28th of March, 1985.
SR-71 Operation Giant Reach.

S-200VE Vega-E


22:56, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 305km
Target azimuth: 286
Target elevation: 2
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 5,5dB


25:20, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 195km
Target azimuth: 285
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


25:35, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 185km
Target azimuth: 284
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


25:51, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 177km
Target azimuth: 282
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


26:07, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 170km
Target azimuth: 279
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


26:23, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 164km
Target azimuth: 276
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


26:39, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 161km
Target azimuth: 273
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 870m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


Total, SNR On Air Time: 6min 25sec



I also have an another question:
I'm not sure what is the "PROLONG VIKL" button, but I'm assuming that it's this one:


Is this correct?

#3509592 - 02/02/12 06:53 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: ricnunes]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Well, I was not firing with "D ZONE" light ON (I was NOT waiting for it to turn ON). I noticed that when I fired with the "D ZONE" light on that the missiles seem inded to fly towards the right direction (towards the target) but in my case I only get the "D ZONE" light on when the SR-71 passes its 3 minute mark (almost at the 4 minute mark) in the plotting table and when I read your AAR and after seeing your plotting table I've seen that you hit the SR-71 just a little bit after the 3 minute mark which means that it was your second and third missiles (the first one was not fired on "Home on Jam") that hit the SR-71 which in my case (playing with current version v923.3) launching missiles with "Home on Jam" at the same distance that you launched your second and third missiles is ONLY POSSIBLE with the "D ZONE" light OFF BUT if I launch the missiles with "Home on Jam" and with the "D ZONE" light OFF the missiles will NEVER follow the target (they will follow that fligth path that I marked in my previously posted picture).

What I did:
1, Got AS4 with the RPC, using IADS.
2, launched a missile out of zone to frighten the SR71. (this missile will not track, and considered lost)
3, SR71 starts jamming
4, PROLONG VIKL (yes that is it), POMEHA VKL, AS2
5, GSN POISK V VIKL
6, launch as many missiles as possible (WW3 anyway started)


So, I want to ask: I which version was that mission of yours played? With the "official" v923.3 or are you using a non-released ("beta") version of SAM simulator?


Always with the latest one thumbsup.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3509670 - 02/02/12 08:31 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,831
ricnunes Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,831
Portugal
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
What I did:
1, Got AS4 with the RPC, using IADS.
2, launched a missile out of zone to frighten the SR71. (this missile will not track, and considered lost)
3, SR71 starts jamming
4, PROLONG VIKL (yes that is it), POMEHA VKL, AS2
5, GSN POISK V VIKL
6, launch as many missiles as possible (WW3 anyway started)


So, I want to ask: I which version was that mission of yours played? With the "official" v923.3 or are you using a non-released ("beta") version of SAM simulator?


Always with the latest one thumbsup.


That's exactly what I do! But what I find curious is that your impacts on the SR-71 (marked on the plotting table) basically happened in the similar spot/area when the SR-71 is when in my game my "D ZONA" indicator becomes green -> So basically when you hit the SR-71 is when I get the green light (D ZONA light) to launch missiles.

#3627387 - 08/16/12 09:50 AM S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon)  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Lets discuss S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) specific issues here...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3627972 - 08/17/12 08:20 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd

I have tested S-200VE against SR-71 in Tallinn scenario.

I launched six missiles, the first which achieved a lock after start was fired at distance of almost 200km and with RSSI of 19,7dB.

Click to reveal..

1967.
SR-71 Operation Tallin.

S-200VE Vega-E


00:09:47, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 237km
Target azimuth: 48
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 908m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 14,2dB


00:10:03, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 223km
Target azimuth: 49
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 906m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 16,1dB


00:10:24, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 204km
Target azimuth: 50
Target elevation: 5
Target angular speed: 903m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 18,5dB


00:10:34, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 195km
Target azimuth: 50
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 901m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 19,7dB


00:10:49, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 182km
Target azimuth: 51
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 898m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 21,4dB


00:10:54, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 177km
Target azimuth: 51
Target elevation: 7
Target angular speed: 897m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 22,1dB


00:12:03, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 5m)

00:12:13, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 8m)

00:12:17, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 9m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 11min 9sec]


The GSN-target received signal strength code was completely rewritten, but it still doesn't feel right, so I will still need to work on it...
... this shot is unrealistic.
biggrin

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/17/12 08:21 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3629073 - 08/19/12 12:25 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,822
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,822
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The GSN-target received signal strength code was completely rewritten, but it still doesn't feel right, so I will still need to work on it...
... this shot is unrealistic.
biggrin


There should be signal/noise ratio for GSN at 3:1 (about 10dB). Here some estimations about range of possible misslie launch, depending by type of the target (bomber;fighter-bomber;cruise missile), transmition mode of the RSN (MHI or FKM) in case of signal/noise ratio for GSN at about 3:1 (10 dB):


As I understand it right, the main problem for CW dopler radar (like S-200VE) is that when radial speed of the target is close to 0, GSN could lock on the main frequence transmited by the RSN (and in our case it is this "noise" signal, which we should avoid by having some +10 dB target signal strenght). Of course, as target speed is closing the 0 or below 0 m/s, the noise level increases, so, to keep our 3:1 signal/noise ratio, we should receive stronger target signal, to distinguished the target...

#3629625 - 08/20/12 08:58 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
xxJohnxx Offline
Junior Member
xxJohnxx  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15
Hi milang, wave

It was on the Asuluk shooting range, and I wanted to figure out how the Vega behaves, like when to shoot, and how many missiles and so on, however as I got the hit, the simulator crashed as described.

Jonathan

#3629633 - 08/20/12 09:41 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 914
farokh Offline
farokh
farokh  Offline
farokh
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 914
I-RAN
jonathan did u try from first to end? i mean did u try sa-2F and sa-2E sa-3b and sa-4B ????
if u wanna learn very pro as a virtual FCO i think u have to work from begin. thumbsup

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