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#3202189 - 02/08/11 06:39 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment ***** [Re: nuggetx]  
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No601_Swallow Offline
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Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.

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#3202353 - 02/08/11 08:56 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: 2005AD]  
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Originally Posted By: 2005AD
It seems that we must adapt to this new method of releasing new flight simulators. Rise of Flight on release had nice graphics, excellent FM and DM but not much else. To be honest it was pretty much appalling on release apart form the core fundamentals. It took a year and a half for Rise of Flight to become anything remotely resembling decent IMHO and it still has a long way to go. I bought the Gotha and the Handley Page 0-400 to support the team and haven't even flown either yet! I am just totally uninetersted in either aircraft but feel I need to support the developers.

I will purchase CoD (crap name I know) as soon as it is released to support it and hope enough people do the same so 1C can get the funds to finish it.

It isn't like great simulations are easy to find. Or to develop.

To put it into perspective. I bought Aliens Vs Predator and Dead Space 2 for my PC recently. Both got played for around an hour each before I got bored rigid with them. I'm much happier taking a WWI or WWII vintage kit up for an hour, even if I don't meet any enemies.


+1!

#3202357 - 02/08/11 08:59 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: No601_Swallow]  
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mazex Offline
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Originally Posted By: No601_Swallow
Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.


+1 to that one too!

#3202376 - 02/08/11 09:16 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: mazex]  
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ratoa Offline
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Originally Posted By: mazex
Originally Posted By: No601_Swallow
Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.


+1 to that one too!


That's what happen when you take 6 yrs (6yrs in the gaming world is alot) and you can't deliver...I'm sorry but to me this sim is half baked...I'm going to get it anyway but way down the road after you beta test it

#3202441 - 02/08/11 10:20 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: nuggetx]  
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Gambit21 Offline
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Quote:
OLEG: Given the likely shelf-life of the sim, there’s sure to be dynamic campaigns created by third parties, as there was with the original Il-2. Dynamic campaigns simply can’t be historical and we don’t like rewriting history. Missions created lovingly by hand are always more interesting than those generated by a dynamic campaign engine.


Exactly!!
Some wise person here recently said the same thing.

#3202450 - 02/08/11 10:29 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: ratoa]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: ratoa
Originally Posted By: mazex
Originally Posted By: No601_Swallow
Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.


+1 to that one too!


That's what happen when you take 6 yrs (6yrs in the gaming world is alot) and you can't deliver...I'm sorry but to me this sim is half baked...I'm going to get it anyway but way down the road after you beta test it


Your lose. I had a hoot beta testing IL-2 and incredibly the original IL-2 beta had very few bugs. Most updates added features, and the bug fixes were minor.


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#3202466 - 02/08/11 10:41 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Chivas]  
Joined: Oct 2006
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Gambit21 Offline
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Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: ratoa
Originally Posted By: mazex
Originally Posted By: No601_Swallow
Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.


+1 to that one too!


That's what happen when you take 6 yrs (6yrs in the gaming world is alot) and you can't deliver...I'm sorry but to me this sim is half baked...I'm going to get it anyway but way down the road after you beta test it


Your lose. I had a hoot beta testing IL-2 and incredibly the original IL-2 beta had very few bugs. Most updates added features, and the bug fixes were minor.


Yep
There's a lot of petulant whining and sniveling in this thread.

I had zero issues with the initial IL2 release...I remember what a pleasant surprise that was at the time after my experience with Falcon 4.0.

#3202482 - 02/08/11 10:53 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: nuggetx]  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
anon
Unregistered


I for one cannot wait to fly it in whatever state it's in, and so far it's looking good to me. I'll happily spend a couple of days solid just learning to fly with the new engine management stuff and for the measly sum of £50 for a nice collectors edition if I never played it again it'd still be value for money enertainment, though if IL2 is any measure I'll spend far too much time playing...

#3202495 - 02/08/11 11:13 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: ]  
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Gambit21 Offline
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Originally Posted By: anon
I for one cannot wait to fly it in whatever state it's in, and so far it's looking good to me. I'll happily spend a couple of days solid just learning to fly with the new engine management stuff and for the measly sum of £50 for a nice collectors edition if I never played it again it'd still be value for money enertainment, though if IL2 is any measure I'll spend far too much time playing...


You nailed it.
The "how dare they not give me everything I deserve within the time frame that I expect, in the sim that I'm paying a whopping
$40 for - this is not acceptable!!" attitude is beyond ridiculous.

#3202514 - 02/08/11 11:45 PM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: nuggetx]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 601
Lemon Offline
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Lemon  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 601
PC Gamer Interview

Quote:
OLEG: Given the likely shelf-life of the sim, there’s sure to be dynamic campaigns created by third parties, as there was with the original Il-2. Dynamic campaigns simply can’t be historical and we don’t like rewriting history. Missions created lovingly by hand are always more interesting than those generated by a dynamic campaign engine.



Flight sims are the one genre where dynamic, randomly generated, scenarios are more interesting than pre-scripted campaigns. I guess I'll play Rowans BoB for another decade frown

Last edited by Lemon; 02/08/11 11:46 PM.
#3202528 - 02/09/11 12:01 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Lemon]  
Joined: Oct 2006
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Gambit21 Offline
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Gambit21  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted By: Lemon
PC Gamer Interview

Quote:
OLEG: Given the likely shelf-life of the sim, there’s sure to be dynamic campaigns created by third parties, as there was with the original Il-2. Dynamic campaigns simply can’t be historical and we don’t like rewriting history. Missions created lovingly by hand are always more interesting than those generated by a dynamic campaign engine.



Flight sims are the one genre where dynamic, randomly generated, scenarios are more interesting than pre-scripted campaigns. I guess I'll play Rowans BoB for another decade frown


For crying out loud. duh

Ever been jumped in a dynamic campaign where seeing the enemy ahead of time would have been an impossibility? NO
Ever been tasked with landing on a road and rescuing a downed squadron mate? NO
Ever had a bomber crash happen on base while you were waiting to take off, and have to wait for emergency vehicles to respond before
you could proceed? Then when returning to base after the mission, you see the burning wreckage still? NO and NO
Ever had a 3 mile long convoy to straff? NO
Ever had an enemy force inbound and attack your flight on the ground while you were trying to take off...in the middle
of a furball over your base? NO
Ever boot up and find youself sitting at an airbase with life all around it? Vehicles moving about, aircraft spooling up near
reventments, etc? NO

Just a few of things possible that I've scripted into missions that you'll never see in a generic, dynamic campaign.

Your contention about dynamic campaigns couldn't be more false, and is exactly the opposite of the reality we face.
But feel free to go play BoB for ten years.

Last edited by Gambit21; 02/09/11 12:01 AM.
#3202562 - 02/09/11 12:46 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: nuggetx]  
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Posts: 601
Lemon Offline
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All the smoke and mirrors fall apart when you die and hit the reload button. The cool crash becomes a tedious delay.

-

The thing is, your examples are all fine and good but if you've played BoB, if you've played Falcon, then you've seen many of things you've listed and they will always be a surprises. It's more than possible to get strafed on takeoff, it's also quite possible to hit mile long convoys. Falcon will task SAR missions, the front lines will move, and if you do poorly you might find your airbase in ruins. The only thing on that list that I've never seen before is airbase modeling but then again it's a fluff feature and doesn't really add much in the way of gameplay.

#3202572 - 02/09/11 01:00 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Lemon]  
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Gambit21 Offline
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Pacific Northwest
You'd just have to experience the hand crafted missions to understand in full what I mean.
Only with a hand built mission can you make everything come together at once.

#3202579 - 02/09/11 01:09 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: nuggetx]  
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dude163 Offline
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I always preferred the hand built campaigns myself


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#3202584 - 02/09/11 01:13 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Chivas]  
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ratoa Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: ratoa
Originally Posted By: mazex
Originally Posted By: No601_Swallow
Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.


+1 to that one too!


That's what happen when you take 6 yrs (6yrs in the gaming world is alot) and you can't deliver...I'm sorry but to me this sim is half baked...I'm going to get it anyway but way down the road after you beta test it


Your lose. I had a hoot beta testing IL-2 and incredibly the original IL-2 beta had very few bugs. Most updates added features, and the bug fixes were minor.


I own the wrong version of IL-2 then because the AI sucked so bad or went crapy down the road (FB) I can't even remember now what I do remember is this game unoficially announced back in 2006 and here we are 2011 a month and a half away from release and we don't even have a proper trailer read again a proper TRAILER. Sadly some of the info we get is that they are leaving some features out of the game because time contraints like 6 years is not enough LOL. Don't get me wrong I want this game to succeed but some reason I can't see it at release but maybe down the road hopefully I'm wrong. btw Chivas I won't be losing anything because my days of Hard Core combat fly sim I can't play something else because is dumb are over I'm just going to sit this one out for awhile so you guys have fun a let me know how it goes ok?

Last edited by ratoa; 02/09/11 01:18 AM.
#3202613 - 02/09/11 01:43 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: nuggetx]  
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Richardg Offline
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It should include some kind of random mission generator, which is basicly what a dynamic campaign is. A mission generator that includes all elements of a mission, planning, take off, navigation, target area, RTB and land. A quick dogfight generator (which is what IL2 has) doesn't cut it.

I have no desire to design missions. Thats the developers job. I buy the sims to fly them, not program them. And scripted missions are ok to fly once, maybe twice, but then they go in the trash bin. Need a new mission after that. Hunting all over the internet for missions isnt fun either. And after going to all the trouble of doing that, sometimes the mission is ok, and sometimes they are stinkers.

#3202614 - 02/09/11 01:47 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Lemon]  
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Chivas Offline
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B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: Lemon
PC Gamer Interview

Quote:
OLEG: Given the likely shelf-life of the sim, there’s sure to be dynamic campaigns created by third parties, as there was with the original Il-2. Dynamic campaigns simply can’t be historical and we don’t like rewriting history. Missions created lovingly by hand are always more interesting than those generated by a dynamic campaign engine.



Flight sims are the one genre where dynamic, randomly generated, scenarios are more interesting than pre-scripted campaigns. I guess I'll play Rowans BoB for another decade frown


There will alway be a very small segment of the the combat flight sim community flying old sims like BOB WOV and EAW. I never understood the hype of the BOB WOV campaign, it was decent but the AI was just a dumb as any other AI especially if you strayed away from the stated mission. I would take the squadron across the channel to attack Stukas returning to base but I could never get the squadron to attack, they just follow me in formation while I shot the Stukas down. Or when returning to base alone out of ammo with a couple of 109's in chase, I would fly toward and around different Spitfire or Hurricane squadron radioing for help, but they would never break formation to help. They just flew on too there stated intercept objectives. (I also new the protocal at the time for getting your squadron to attack).


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#3202616 - 02/09/11 01:48 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Richardg]  
Joined: Oct 2006
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Gambit21 Offline
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Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted By: Richardg

I have no desire to design missions. Thats the developers job.


No, it's the job of any creative person who cares to take the time.
It's not "programing" in any case.

Last edited by Gambit21; 02/09/11 02:18 AM.
#3202699 - 02/09/11 04:09 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: ratoa]  
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Tiger27 Offline
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Perth, Western Australia
Originally Posted By: ratoa
Originally Posted By: mazex
Originally Posted By: No601_Swallow
Is it just me?

I've been lurking on forums here for years (I even got almost active in the build-up to ROF's release) and I'm of course aware of the general cantankerousness of us simmers/hobbyists/fanbois (what a crappy godawful insulting word) and our addiction of quarrelling and quibbling.

But is this CoD forum the most negative begrudging and mean-spirited forum yet?

It must be just me. But I do wish the mods had a magic wand to magic away all this cheap carping and snide negativity. I used to think it was just Tree and a few other cynics, but now loads of people seem to be crawling out of the woodwork. Some seem to have registered just to criticise (who on earth is "Brealistic"? Subtle name...).

Help me out. Tell me I'm not going all over-sensitive and girly. I mean, I now really hesitate to check this site out now. (And good riddance, will be the chorus...) Just seems sad.


+1 to that one too!


That's what happen when you take 6 yrs (6yrs in the gaming world is alot) and you can't deliver...I'm sorry but to me this sim is half baked...I'm going to get it anyway but way down the road after you beta test it


So you've played it have you, half baked, the only thing half baked is your post, 6 years might be a long time for a FPS but not for a flight sim, you can always go and play the next version of Call of Duty where there is no real modeling of anything, ah well your loss.


III/JG11_Tiger
#3202778 - 02/09/11 07:13 AM Re: New news - new dissapointment [Re: Gambit21]  
Joined: May 2006
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HeinKill Offline
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Posts: 3,743
Cloud based
Originally Posted By: Gambit21

For crying out loud. duh

Ever been jumped in a dynamic campaign where seeing the enemy ahead of time would have been an impossibility? NO
Ever been tasked with landing on a road and rescuing a downed squadron mate? NO
Ever had a bomber crash happen on base while you were waiting to take off, and have to wait for emergency vehicles to respond before
you could proceed? Then when returning to base after the mission, you see the burning wreckage still? NO and NO
Ever had a 3 mile long convoy to straff? NO
Ever had an enemy force inbound and attack your flight on the ground while you were trying to take off...in the middle
of a furball over your base? NO
Ever boot up and find youself sitting at an airbase with life all around it? Vehicles moving about, aircraft spooling up near
reventments, etc? NO


Uhm...

Ever been jumped in a dynamic campaign where seeing the enemy ahead of time would have been an impossibility? Yes
Ever had a bomber crash happen on base while you were waiting to take off Yes, and have to wait for emergency vehicles to respond before
you could proceedNO? Then when returning to base after the mission, you see the burning wreckage still? Yes
Ever had an enemy force inbound and attack your flight on the ground while you were trying to take off...in the middle
of a furball over your base? Yes
Ever boot up and find youself sitting at an airbase with life all around it? Vehicles moving about, aircraft spooling up near
reventments, etc? Yes

Don't get me wrong, I love scripted missions (unless they have time limits...May the Wings of Prey Mission Designer Rot in Hades). But I also love really well done dynamic campaigns, and they do exist, in sims other than IL2.

H


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