Falcon I and II were more numerous (they were installed even after Falcon III was first delivered). RR simply could not deliver enought of Falcon III engines even when it was preferred. -> Thats the reason Brisfit had numerous engines. They searched engine that could be mass produced and would give similar peformance as Falcon III.

But overall Falcon III engined Brisfit numbers were quite low (This probably has nothing to do what RoF planes is going to be tought).

Interesting, so other RR engines then.

I suspect 777 will give us the best performing variant.

If I remember well, Falcon I wasn't installed on serial F.2Bs. They were only used with F.2As. It's true, that Flacon II was used massively, mainly during the 1917, but F.2B was designed to be easily reequipped with Falcon III engines, and so they were during 1918, especially those from western front. Generally it's hard to say, which Falcon version was mostly used with this plane during entire war, simply because if the aircraft was initially built with Mk. II, it could have been reequipped with Mk. III later, and since there's lot of 1918 planes in RoF and F.2B itself also was mostly used in this year (it entered service in autumn 1917), I'd vote for Mk.III version.
Now, the real question is, which prop version will Biff have in the game. Best propeller version was four bladed P.3045, which was giving better performance even to Bristols with Falcon Mk. II, than two-bladers were giving for those with Mk. IIIs.

S!

Problem tought was that there really were not enought of Falcon III engines (even in 1918 great majority of Brisfits had other engine than Falcon III) and thats why only relatively few got it. RR simply could not mass produce it any great numbers.

Well you are right as long, as we're talking about overall number of Bristols built. But I'm trying to focus on those used in western front, since this is the theater used in RoF. There's a stetement made on the Progress and Allocation Committee in June 1918, that: "18 Falcon engines delivered this month, only one has been a Series III. This is pointed out as the Series III Falcon is the only engine of this type which can go overseas."
English is not my native language, so I'm not shure, but if I undestand well, Mk.III was the only Falcon version sent to Europe and other theatres at least as late, as june 1918. Therefore I'd guess that majority of RR engined Bristols in line service had Mk.III, while others were used in less responsible roles in Britain, such as trainers or so.

Interesting, thanks.

No, Falcon III was very rare. Great majority of Bristols frontline had Falcon II engine even in 1918. That statement just emphasize how desperate sitatuation was and Bristols had been front long time(and numbers) by June 1918 when that statement was issued. If they would have only used Falcon III engined brisfits, there would not be many around at all.

BTW looks like RoF Brisfit is getting Falcon II engine(Or atleast Viks is mostly intersted in that one in aerodrome forums).

According to the legendary J.M. Bruce in British Aeroplanes 1914-18 (probably the greatest work ever on this subject)

Of the F.2B (excluding the F.2A)
A.7101-A.7250 (except A.7177 and A.7183) all had the 190hp Falcon I
A.7251-A.7300 all had the 220hp Falcon II

all other Falcon engined production batches (which he lists but are far to numerous to write here) are engined with the 275hp Falcon III.

It definately looks like the Falcon III was the most common.

Spoon

From Wiki only 250 Falcon I and 250 Falcon II were bulilt compared to over 1500 Falcon III engines.

As there were over 1500 Biffs in frontline use by the Armistice it suggests that most of the 1500 had the Falcon III, no? If they didn't have the Falcon III what did they have?

Hmmm I really hope this isn't going to be another case where RoF saddles an aircraft that in RL usually had a good engine with a sluggish low-power variant (Fokker D.VII)

Mind you, this thread already contains simultaneous and confident assertions that Falcon III numbers were low (Mig-77) or were high (quote from J M Bruce).

You're right, we need to get this sorted out pronto.

We don't want the dev's wasting time making the wrong version..... as has happened before. Nobody's happy with that situation.

1952 Flightglobal article, says most Brisfits had the Falcon III. 150 F2B had Falcon I, 50 with Falcon II, the rest through 1918 had Falcon III with a few oddities with Puma's and Hispanos. So this article says anyway.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1952/1952%20-%203218.html

I don't want to stir things up, I just want us to have the most common Biff, unless 777 are working on 2 versions?

There were total 1650 (or so) Falcon III engines made at Derby. That includes its production up to 1927 when production was stopped (average only 165 engines per year, altought I have no info how much were done during war and how much after). Now Brisfit was supposed to have Falcon III from fall 1917 onwards (and most were ordered with Falcon III). RR simply could not suply enough Falcon III engines (as seen even in that June 1918 statement. Only 1 of 18 falcon engines delivered was Falcon III. So what were those other falcon engines, if their production was stopped?) and most used Falcon II instead (or other engines like Sunbeam Arab).

Ok, checked windsock and profile publications. Total number of Brisfits accepted in service at end of 1918 was 3101(Profile publications). Total number of delivered Falcon engines (all variants?) was 1632 at December 1918(windsock). So roughly only 50% Brisfits were Falcon (any variant) engined. And at best, roughly 1/3 of brisfits were Falcon III engined.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but since we're talking here about RR engined versions only, or at least that's, what it seems to me, then it looks, like most common among those was the Falcon III version.

Well, given that we have a Camel and Dr I that appear to be supercharged for high-altitude combat, I think a Falcon III for the Brisfit would be fair .

It was first only about Falcon III engines (Or that only Falcon III engined Brisfit had exceptional perfomance) and I incorrectly assumed that RR engines were huge majority. It seems that it only about half had RR engine. Now what strikes me odd still is that even as late as June 1918 only one of 18 Falcon engines delivered was Falcon III. Planes than can be sure which had Falcon III engines are B1182-B1187 and atleast 47 subsequent from batch B1101-B1350(according to windsock).

Cannot be correct. Example C4808 had Falcon II, B1204 had Arab, C4654 had Puma, E2400 had 300hp Hispano-Suiza, etc.


Further looking engines that were used in which batch From contract nro 87/A/552 (first bristol order):

A3303-A3354 -> Falcon I
A7101-A7300 -> Falcon I, II & III
B1101-B1350 -> Falcon III & Sunbeam Arab & Viper & Puma
C4801-C4900 -> Falcon II & and possibly III / Arab

This one's not next, but it sure will happen.
Posted by Jason obver atthe RoF site:

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Greetings,
Catfish

Hi Guys,

After going through my books last night, I can clear up a few of issues.

Firstly, Each succeeding model of the Falcon replaced the previous model on the production line. There may have been some overlap while the old model was being supperceeded by the new but once Falcon III production was rolling, Falcon II production stopped. Older Falcon engines (and Eagles too) continued to be overhauled and returned to service and the report quoted earlier about the supply of one Falcon III compared to 17 earlier Falcon models is referring to reconditioned motors.

Secondly, only two engine types of used by the Briston F.2 overseas. All F.2 Fighter/Reccon squadrons were issued with the Falcon engine EXCLUSIVELY. In 1918, it was decided to replace the Corps squadrons RE8's and FK8's with a version of the Bristol powered by the Sunbeam Arab. These had just started to arrive in France for squadron allocation when the war ended. No other engine types were used outside Great Britain and no Fighter/Reccon squadron flew with any other engine than the Falcon.

Thirdly, after the supply of the Falcon III started, ALL Bristol fighters going overseas were required to be equipped with it. This wasn't a wish but an RFC/RAF policy. Home Defense squadrons had to make to with mainly reconditioned old Falcon variants but I can guareentee that by the winter of 1917, every single Bristol F.2B going to the Fighter/Reccon squadrons in France was equipt with the Falcon III. With very few early Falcons going to France, I would be amazed if by the start of 1918, there was one single early Falcon I/II engined F.2B still in service outside Great Britain.

Spoon