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#3196003 - 02/02/11 03:27 AM Update is out...Gotha!  
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Oilburner Offline
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beercheers Getting ready to try out the Gotha:)

Last edited by Oilburner; 02/02/11 03:54 AM.
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#3196021 - 02/02/11 03:51 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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Compared to the HP, the Gotha is FAST (easy cruise at 110) and has a LOT of power...and a lot of Torque induced Gyro effects. It is not for the amateur...the HP gives you plenty of warning when you are approacing it's limits...the Gotha lets you know about 3-4 seconds after you've already gone to far. At full throttle I killed one engine and instantly went into a hard spin (not a spin that started slowly and progressed...but an instant wipeout).

Last edited by Oilburner; 02/02/11 03:53 AM.
#3196039 - 02/02/11 04:38 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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I'm not big on bombers but I gotta say as bombers go, the Gotha is a fine-looking one.

#3196174 - 02/02/11 11:48 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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...and she is one hell of a beast to fly!!! OMG! eek

Originally Posted By: Oilburner
...and a lot of Torque induced Gyro effects.


Did you mean adverse yaw?


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#3196206 - 02/02/11 01:01 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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Where the ocean meets the sky
Hello,
(also posted this in the RoF forum)


this is great, from all reports and accounts i read this bird really simulates well to behave like the real thing ! I have not tried it out that much with varying load conditions (bombs, fuel etc.) but this is the first plane overall in all sims i ever had, where i ever had this absolute wow feeling. (Maybe the Nieuport 17 in RoF, a bit)

I just ask myself what people say who do not have much simulation experience cool

It is not even so difficult to fly, but you have to keep it in its tight "flight envelope" or however you call that. I guess using a small plastic joystick, where full aileron movements are reduced to a few centimeters, is more of a challenge than having that big heavy-turnable wheel in front of your chest. You almost always oversteer, so keep the joystick movements sparse and tight, and wait for the plane to respond. It really is like riding a horse, you apply some "help" like itching a bit here and there, and then let the beast do the rest by itself - and then it will.

First time i tried it out in single missions i was up in the air, chased by a SPAD and was well able to stand my ground, i even managed to make a few turns. After the SPAD had crashed i reduced throttle (having hit "0" for both engine control) and tried to go down in wide circles, sometimes being close to an uncontrollable side slip since i had reduced too much power - but when there's enough altitude you can always gain speed by dropping the nose, but the tail is really heavy and using at least some throttle is better ..
When i was close to the ground i throttled back fully and lifted the nose ... and the nose got up, but so did the rest of the plane - still to much speed - and then stall, touch down and noseover lol.

Second time i began at the ground, started both engines separately, switched to "0" both engine controls and ... began to circle left though i had applied full rudder right until i faced the hangars when it suddenly behaved and rolled on straight - oops - stoooop, i was very close now to the hangar .. hmm. Ok, switched control to one engine, applied throttle and turned the G.V around towards the field again, then again applied "0" for both engines, This time i was able to hold course and the Gotha took off rather soon, and lightly. Kept the nose down some time to gather speed and then tried out some actions and plane reactions.
If trying to turn at the ground at small speed, always push down the elevator at least a bit, it will certainly help the rudder (and you) to get back directional control.
BUT no part of the tail and especially rudder is in the elongated prop axis, so the plane will break left easily (both engines turn the same direction), without having a means to counter this without the engines ! A two-throttle quadrant would be a nice add-on for this plane (unnecessarily to say, i do not have it).

So i took off, flew a curve and tried to land, again. Full throttle back, nooo, apply more power, arrgh, now i was heading in the wrong direction, back to course, losing balance, too much altitude lost and too fast, throttle back, touch down, noseover.

Third time, too tight curve to head back to the aerodrome, lost too much speed in the bank, and the bank thus became too steep, applied full throttle but too late, really completely lost control and crashed badly into the trees.

Fourth time, noseover again.

Someone asked:
" ... So is she really more unstable & tail heavy when empty compared to full?
Does she really have a tendency to turn over? ..."

Yes and yes. I turned her over a lot of times until i got at least an idea what i was doing wrong lol. Land with some throttle, don't try a three-pointer, do not try to side slip to lose altitude. Just do as you would in real life, never do hasty movements with the stick, never push the throttle full back and forth in one quick movement lol. As well ailerons seem to work like rudder sometimes, but adverse. This Gotha is really a beast -

Great flying model, as said before the Gotha behaves as the beast she was (in)famous for.

Greetings,
Catfish

Last edited by Catfish; 02/02/11 01:06 PM.
#3196414 - 02/02/11 04:41 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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Do gunners strafe?

#3196420 - 02/02/11 04:49 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Avimimus]  
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Josh Echo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Do gunners strafe?


What do you mean?

#3196470 - 02/02/11 05:45 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Josh Echo]  
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Wishing I was in the La Cloche
Originally Posted By: Josh Echo
Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Do gunners strafe?

What do you mean?

I think he asks whether the gunners will engage ground targets.


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#3196767 - 02/02/11 10:09 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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Exactly - it is important for realistic low-level attacks (with two seaters or otherwise).

I suspect that this will be an issue with the Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b! But, I want to do night attacks with the Gotha sooner (and FS-WW1 already has a Gotha whose gunners strafe ground targets). I'm holding off on purchasing the bombers until I either know that this feature is in place or upgrade my computer to one which can run the newest patches.

#3196801 - 02/02/11 10:46 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Avimimus]  
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Where the ocean meets the sky
Hello,
Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Exactly - it is important for realistic low-level attacks (with two seaters or otherwise).


Low level attacks with Gothas ? Where did you hear this ?

Quote:
I suspect that this will be an issue with the Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b! But, I want to do night attacks with the Gotha sooner (and FS-WW1 already has a Gotha whose gunners strafe ground targets). I'm holding off on purchasing the bombers until I either know that this feature is in place or upgrade my computer to one which can run the newest patches.


I think the Gotha was never intended to strafe trenches - german, austrian, turkish, bulgarian and other air corps fighting vs. the Entente used two seaters like the Halberstadt CL.II for such purposes, but big bombers ? Nigth missions, yes later in the war, but i really doubt low-flying missions. Or is there a source ?
The "Schlastas" (Schlacht-Staffeln) only used two-seaters, but never those relatively big bombers -

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish



Last edited by Catfish; 02/02/11 10:48 PM.
#3196820 - 02/02/11 10:59 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Catfish]  
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Avimimus Offline
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I recall that Austrio-Hungarian specifications included armour. I also suspect that night time conditions often forced low level attacks (when medium-altitude sighting wouldn't have been possible). Then there is the addition of Becker 20mm cannons to twin-engined platforms (used as a ground attack weapon).

So there are three reasons to suspect that D series aircraft were used in low-level attacks (away from London and away from Daylight). However, I'm relatively ignorant regarding the tactics of these units.

It is a must for two-seaters though (having AI gunners which will expend the majority, but not all, on ground targets).

#3196934 - 02/03/11 01:36 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Avimimus]  
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Just installed and flew!? the Gotha, wow, they fly as well as a Pit Bull. Talk about being a handful, needless to say, could never land it,for whatever reasons it stalls at the blink of an eye, if there's altitude it will almost always correct itself, but close to the ground, forget it!
I believe the tail heavy condition could be tweaked a little in order to make it a little more user friendly (by the way is there a way of doing this in a CFG file, if there is one?), this one and the Sopwith Camel are not my pick of the litter, haven't tried the English Bomber just yet, I'm trying to recover from my bruises dished out by the Gotha (mean spirited sucker).
Other than its flying abilities or luck thereof, the airplane is beautiful to look at, very good job they've done, for sure!
Now, let's hear from those that have gone under the bridges with the Gotha, what, no one?

#3197033 - 02/03/11 04:35 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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Well after a lot more seat time I must say that the HP is definitely a more effective platform (pilot workload is insane in the Gotha when trying to line up for a bombing run and holding your alt and heading while popping back and forth to the bombsight). HP seems to be a lot "tougher". I've landed an HP with only one engine and pieces of wing missing and I can't even fly the Gotha with one engine. The Gotha is fragile, hard to fly, and at least in the make believe world of online servers a deathtrap. I love it smile

Last edited by Oilburner; 02/03/11 04:35 AM.
#3197065 - 02/03/11 05:16 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Avimimus]  
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Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Do gunners strafe?

Yes they do. I just flew the Fly Now mission with the Gotha and happened to fly low and near a convey. Both gunners engaged the ground targets.

Gotta say the Gotha is indeed a challenge to fly! It took me three tries to take off in it. I have a dual throttle (G940) and found I needed to add/reduce throttle to one or the other engine during the takeoff roll to keep it straight. Maybe with more practice that won't be needed. Once it gets sufficient ground speed it is easier to handle and lifts off without much drama. But in the air it definitely needs to be handled with care! I'm not sure what use the ailerons are as they don't help with turns. Well I guess they do if you use them counter-intuitively to get the plane to yaw in the direction you are turning. But it is the rudder that you use primarily to turn this beast. Compared to the HP, this one needs to be flown very gently. I did manage to land it smoothly the first try. I knew that I had to keep the speed up, so came in at near 100kph, maybe a little less until the wheels touched down. I backed off the throttles only slightly until I was sure it was on the ground and then gradually reduced them while the tail skid was down. No ground loop!

I also took a spin as the tail gunner and successfully defended against two veteran SPADs in a QMB. In the few QMBs I tried as the attacker (solo) against a Gotha, I was killed twice and the third time finally shot one down, but only after getting severely wounded. I was mostly impatient each time and didn't work hard enough at approaching low and popping up to kill the rear gunner.

Its an impressive plane and requires respect whether flying it or fighting against it.

#3197102 - 02/03/11 06:56 AM Re: Update is out [Re: arjisme]  
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Originally Posted By: arjisme


Its an impressive plane and requires respect whether flying it or fighting against it.


You bet, just spent my first hour or so in it and it's a handful. I think the use of ailerons is much like in the HP, they're effective but very draggy and fine tuning the turns was all rudder. Much more practice needed.

=MFC=Gunloon


Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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#3197128 - 02/03/11 08:26 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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I bought the Gotha and love it -- I think!

I guess I'm getting a little old brcause I can go to different stations (like the front and rear machine gunners station)in the plane but can't figure out how to take a hold of the gun to aim and shoot it. I can make it shoot but I don't know how to aim the gun. How do you do this?

Thanks,
Crockett


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#3197142 - 02/03/11 09:30 AM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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'T' to take control, 'shift+T' to nestle in to the sights, left mouse to fire, mouse center wheel/button to reload are the defaults. This is a big part of why I created a new .map input profile for the Handley Page from scratch, using the new default 'input' .map as a template. I rarely use the mouse in game and I'd removed most mouse commands from my basic generic file I've cloned all my planes' individual input and responses from months ago, the one with all my button assignments. The scouts' input files are all just fine except for the minor chore of having to add the four new flare launching commands. Doing it from scratch for the bomber(s) rather than all that backtracking is way easier.

I hope you're saving your control changes to a new file, not the 'input' one that gets overwritten by updates.

I've already seen the bunch of threads over at the ROF site as I expected to, all caterwauling about their controls' remapping being lost because they insist on saving to that 'input' .map file...

=MFC=Gunloon

Last edited by Gunloon; 02/03/11 09:41 AM.

Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity
#3197176 - 02/03/11 11:46 AM Re: Update is out [Re: arjisme]  
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Originally Posted By: arjisme
Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Do gunners strafe?

Yes they do. I just flew the Fly Now mission with the Gotha and happened to fly low and near a convey. Both gunners engaged the ground targets.


Excellent! Now I'm really excited!

#3198680 - 02/04/11 07:39 PM Re: Update is out [Re: Oilburner]  
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The new patch also brought my framerates back! I can now keep using the product (instead of it "failing" as the result of 1.016)!

#3199016 - 02/05/11 12:35 AM Re: Update is out [Re: walter7]  
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Oh well, I have to back track a little!
When flying, actually trying to take off the Handley today, it acted as if only one engine was working, ditto, I had to re configure the throttle (2) in the Options panel. And of course, yesterday when flying the Gotha, I started a Quick Mission up in the air, only one engine was being controlled by the joystick though, no wonder it was so darn impossible to fly.
After adjusting the throttle issue, I was able to fly both the Handley and the Gotha, the Handley is much more forgiving and doesn't stall as bad as the Gotha, I found out that because the engines in the later do torque to the right (when in the pilot position), thus right hand turns should be avoided at low altitudes, it has a tremendous tendency to stall to the right, regardless of airspeed.
Specially these bombers with their huge wingspan, ailerons are used mostly to keep the wings level or at no more than 15 deg. bank, or a stall will ensue, usually right aileron will cause yaw to the left (just like on a high wing airplane, like a Piper Cub), so opposite aileron should be used on turns, or it will stall, specially when turning to the right.
Easy does it on this baby. Nevertheless a real beauty, a mean one, but a beauty never the less. By the way, on landing after rolling it nosed over, have to tell my mechanics to move the gear forward a couple of feet, darn it!

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