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#3193374 - 01/30/11 06:51 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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I would love a BR1 F1 Camel or a Clerget 9Bf F1 Camel for 1918 operations. A plus is that there is no need to build another 3D model for either of the F1 Camel variants; we already have the model. =)


Instead of complaining about SPAD 7s, Central pilots should capture and fly them too. I suggest putting an apple in the middle of your Aerodrome field and just wait. Eventually a SPAD 7 will come by to get the apple, cause SPADS can't resist apples. This is how the Entente gets a hold of SPAD 7s, m-kay?
-MJ Morrow
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#3193390 - 01/30/11 07:12 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
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Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson
...With the exception of the SPAD VII, the scout stable is perfectly adequate for a start to finish career in any service. ...

How about something to blend the gap between the Eindecker and the Albatros eras, such as the Halberstadt DII?

As mentioned elsewhere, "The Halberstadt D.II went into service around July- August 1916 and was withdrawn from service by the end of February 1917 with the exception of Jasta 25 until April 1917 when it was reequipped with the Rol.D.II. The Albatros D.II went into service in October 1916 and were generally withdrawn from service by the end of May 1917. A few continued in Jasta use as late as July 1917.

Just a thought, I perceive a gap between Eindeckers and Albatri.


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#3193475 - 01/30/11 08:50 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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Yes some WW1 aircraft performance figures, especially for bombers it seems, appear to be for empty or maybe "factory fresh" aircraft. Its the only way to reconcile anecdotal performance with the printed stats.

The Gotha V for instance, stated as having a ceiling of 21'000ft then reported as attacking London at 10,000ft. Empty v loaded???


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#3193480 - 01/30/11 08:54 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
You can reasonably expect to see the Brisfit, SPAD VII, DH4, Halberstadt CL.II and maybe RE8 and others in the future after the DFW and B14.

Jason


A nice list for starters, with the aircraft we already have it makes sense to fill in the late war gaps first.

Please make the RE8, OK its not a high performance crate but its an important plane and it really should be included from a historical perspective.


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#3193506 - 01/30/11 09:32 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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Bandy: Good point, but there were jastas that went straight from the Eindecker to the Alb D.II.

The same cannot be said of the current French lineup. Nieuport 17s were withdrawn from service by mid 1917. SPAD XIIIs did not appear until late 1917. SPAD VIIs were ubiquitous. For pretty much all of 1917 they were the scout of choice for the French air service. It is IMHO the biggest hole in the scout lineup. I am very happy to see that it is coming.

For Jason: please be aware that there were two significant variations of SPAD VII: the 150 HP model and the 180 HP model. This is important beacause of the length of life of this type. The 180 HP version in early 1917 would be absolutely dominant. Conversely, the 150 HP version would be a pretty tough ride in 1918.

I do agree that the Halb is the most important remaining fighter for the Germans and probably the most important after the SPAD. There are also the early Fokkers: D.II, D..III and E.IV, but those are not nearly as significant. Other German nice to haves are the Roland D.II, D.IV, and SSWs. British nice to haves include the DH5, Martinsyde, and Snipe. Mid war French Nieuports (24 and 27) would also be nice.

Not sure how sales would be for most of those types. The SPAD VII, Halb and Snipe would sell. I could see people buying SSWs and the E.IV. The DH5 would be mostly for those that like a challenge (i.e. masochists smile )

#3193554 - 01/30/11 10:24 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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This game has come a looong way since launch! If Jason and the boys in Moscow keep it up, we will have a full blown WW1 air war simulator. Maybe by summer 2014, in time for the 100th anniversary of the Great War!

#3193641 - 01/31/11 12:29 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL for the SPAD VII, both the 150 and 180; they are a favourite mount in other sims. Jason's other offerings are wonderful as well. Hopefully the 150 and 180 will be released together in RoF since it should be a simple ini edit to up the engine HP and related variables, or at least I think there were no 'cosmetic' changes.

Same basic argument for the BE2c through g; make one model and minor tweak the variants for an aircraft that literally started and finished the war --however unpopular (other than as a target...) thumbsup


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#3193704 - 01/31/11 02:06 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Bandy]  
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bandy
Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL for the SPAD VII, both the 150 and 180; they are a favourite mount in other sims. Jason's other offerings are wonderful as well. Hopefully the 150 and 180 will be released together in RoF since it should be a simple ini edit to up the engine HP and related variables, or at least I think there were no 'cosmetic' changes.

Same basic argument for the BE2c through g; make one model and minor tweak the variants for an aircraft that literally started and finished the war --however unpopular (other than as a target...) thumbsup


WE DON'T USE AN .INI SYSTEM. WE MODEL ALL THE ACTUAL SYSTEMS AS THEY OPERATED IN REAL LIFE. THAT IS WHAT MAKES ROF DIFFERENT FROM AND BETTER FROM THE OTHERS! THEREFORE NO TWEAK IS MINOR.

Sorry for the shouting, but this is a common misconception. If you want to play with .ini files there are plenty of other sims to choose from. If you want our flight models and physics you need to be aware of this fundemental difference.

We could eventually change our system to an .ini system (it would actually make some things easier for us), but you would probably loose some fidelity.

Jason

#3193705 - 01/31/11 02:07 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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+1 on AI only two seater planes then release the playable version as 777 are doing with the current two seaters...

Then the new career mode will have some legs because at present though it will be nice and all it will be very restricted. waiting for the flyables so the career mode can be utilised to it's fullest is by the looks of it a couple of years away or more...when you most likely could have all the most common planes AI only by the end of the year...thats a pure guess by the way wink

Last edited by Wodin; 01/31/11 02:08 AM.
#3193712 - 01/31/11 02:12 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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The cockpit is developed along side the external model. The external model takes longer to build thanks to our DM and our FM tuning so it makes no differece.

Jason

#3193714 - 01/31/11 02:14 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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The BE2c and BE2e were somewhat different in appearance. The fuselage was the same but the wings were quite a bit different.

The SPAD VII was, I believe, outwardly the same. Since Jason points out that internal systems are modeled in detail then the engine difference would be on the same order as the D.VII/D.VIIf.

#3194015 - 01/31/11 11:50 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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It would be nice to have both Spad 7 versions, they'd cover late 1916 to 1918 then.

Sell them as seperate planes Jason. There'll be the usual grumbling but no ones forced to buy them.


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#3194035 - 01/31/11 12:53 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: PatrickAWilson]  
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Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson
The SPAD VII was, I believe, outwardly the same. Since Jason points out that internal systems are modeled in detail then the engine difference would be on the same order as the D.VII/D.VIIf.


Merely humbly adding that the VII was actually a tad smaller than the XII in both wingspan size and fuselage lenght according to theaerodrome (Currently not up, but I remember reading it there as well), flugzeuginfo and wikipedia and many other sites:


http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_spadsvii_en.php
http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_spadsxiii_en.php

#3194065 - 01/31/11 01:27 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: RoFfan]  
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Originally Posted By: RoFfan
What I see in Pat Wilson's list, trimmed down to reasonable size, is an emphasis on the more humble aircraft. Going for the DH4 or Brisfit before a two-seater like the Be2 or RE8 is going to cause hundreds of threads about two-seaters that cannot be caught in the CP career mode.


I've been saying this all alone, the RoF lineup is not dicated by historical reality but by aircraft that sell well.

For true historical missions, the Brisfit is far less required than an RE8, but the RE8 gets an official "maybe" and the Brisfit gets top of the list. A shame that this beautiful game is so warped in it's representation of actual aircraft used.

Pat, to add to your "minimalistic lineup", how about the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter, it would give both French and Brits a mid-war twin seater that could reasonable be fit in for the RE8 in late war missions.

As far as twoseaters go, that one actually offers the most bang for buck as far as filling gaps. But I'm willing to bet there will be a Snipe before that one is ever made (if it is made at all).

#3194396 - 01/31/11 06:50 PM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
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Originally Posted By: RSColonel_131st
Pat, to add to your "minimalistic lineup", how about the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter, it would give both French and Brits a mid-war twin seater that could reasonable be fit in for the RE8 in late war missions.


Yes! I've read that the Strutter was used prolifically by the French, and the British were still flying it over the Somme in the Spring of 1917. I would love to see it in RoF.

Originally Posted By: RedVonHammer
Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson
The SPAD VII was, I believe, outwardly the same. Since Jason points out that internal systems are modeled in detail then the engine difference would be on the same order as the D.VII/D.VIIf.


Merely humbly adding that the VII was actually a tad smaller than the XII in both wingspan size and fuselage lenght according to theaerodrome (Currently not up, but I remember reading it there as well), flugzeuginfo and wikipedia and many other sites:


The Spad 13 was a redesigned aircraft just as much as the Sopwith Camel was not merely a more powerful Pup.

Last edited by RoFfan; 01/31/11 06:52 PM.
#3194865 - 02/01/11 01:44 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: Graf]  
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Again I think a work around is to release the planes, that might not make so much money but are really required, as AI only to start with. Could sell them for a couple of dollars even.

Whoops just seen Jasons reply....that means you could release the two two seaters that are in game now then?

Anyway if it does for some reason require any extra work (which surely it must otherwise the two current two seaters would have been released as flyable by now if their all set to go) to make planes flyable make them AI only and sell them for $2.99.

Last edited by Wodin; 02/01/11 01:48 AM.
#3194885 - 02/01/11 02:20 AM Re: New Career Mode...1.018? [Re: RedVonHammer]  
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Originally Posted By: RedVonHammer
Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson
The SPAD VII was, I believe, outwardly the same. Since Jason points out that internal systems are modeled in detail then the engine difference would be on the same order as the D.VII/D.VIIf.


Merely humbly adding that the VII was actually a tad smaller than the XII in both wingspan size and fuselage lenght according to theaerodrome (Currently not up, but I remember reading it there as well), flugzeuginfo and wikipedia and many other sites:


http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_spadsvii_en.php
http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acdata_php/acdata_spadsxiii_en.php



Apologies, I wasn't clear. I was talking about the 150 HP SPAD VII vs the 180 HP SPAD VII, not the VII vs. the XIII.

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