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#3233027 - 03/13/11 05:29 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 **** [Re: Sim]  
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unpilot Offline
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When your right MFD is set to CDU that is the repeater function....I believe.
At any rate when I click on OSB 16 nothing happens.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3233035 - 03/13/11 06:13 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: unpilot]  
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Sim Offline
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Originally Posted By: unpilot
When your right MFD is set to CDU that is the repeater function....I believe.
At any rate when I click on OSB 16 nothing happens.


So you enter your coordinates using keyboard and then you press OSB16?

#3233285 - 03/13/11 03:53 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: Sim]  
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I was failing to press OBS 9 to select a new waypoint number.
After doing that...all is good. Thanks!

#3276609 - 04/22/11 12:40 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: Sim]  
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Nice guide Sim biggrin

#3279370 - 04/25/11 07:19 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: Sim]  
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Fantastic guide that will make the whole process a lot easier. Thanks.


To..
#3284460 - 05/01/11 09:54 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: Sim]  
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Maaz Offline
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Great guide, thanks for this!

I'm having trouble slaving my SPI to weapons. I make an SPI with the TGP then switch to MAV, press "V" and the MAV camera slews to my current steerpoint and not my SPI. any ideas?

#3288843 - 05/06/11 11:10 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: Sim]  
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THANKS ALOT!!!

#3299453 - 05/20/11 10:15 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide GBU-12 [Re: Sim]  
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Give a man fish and he gets food, give a man a fishing rod and he asks for another one.
#3311712 - 06/06/11 06:57 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide GBU-12 [Re: Sim]  
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Deigs Offline
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to Iceman, thanks mate. This guide got me into A10, and jump a few hurdles. Cheers mate. Top work. I've told all new players to look at your work.

Best icebreaker to new players.

#3311874 - 06/06/11 01:28 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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ht57 Offline
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Hey Maaz
You have to designate the point. IE lase the target with the tgp, turn laser on,("L" flashing in hud), press TMS long, turn laser off then make the mav your soi and then "V" key long, with the mav slewed you can zoom in with a "v" key short,tms short to lock, if it doesn't lock a slight slew of the mav and tms short. Don't try to reacquire the target with the mav using the "V" long a second time tho, as you cause the tgp to lose the target. you have repeat this process to keep the target locked locked. here is an excellent vid that teaches some gr8 stuff bout the TGP,

[url=ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOZ18GNPI-c]ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOZ18GNPI-c[/url]

#3486403 - 01/03/12 07:20 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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Red_5 Offline
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Yes, thanks very much for this extremely useful guide.

Although I've been 'flying' for quite a long time, learning new aircraft, avionics and weapons systems from the ground up is challenge. These picture "how to blow things up" guides are a great help in getting right into some action and very useful for 'tactile learners' such as meself.

thumbsup

Last edited by Red_5; 01/03/12 07:20 AM.
#3631613 - 08/23/12 08:15 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide GBU-12 [Re: Sim]  
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how'd I miss this thread?

lol,

i keep a smaller notebook with the procedures written down, that way i can just open, turn to page, and lookup procedure if i become stuck,.


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#3631630 - 08/23/12 08:48 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38 and AGM-65 [Re: Maaz]  
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Frederf Offline
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Originally Posted By: Maaz
Great guide, thanks for this!

I'm having trouble slaving my SPI to weapons. I make an SPI with the TGP then switch to MAV, press "V" and the MAV camera slews to my current steerpoint and not my SPI. any ideas?


The problem is that your STPT is your SPI. Somehow you didn't make the TGP your SPI generator. Confirm which sensor is generating SPI on the lower left corner of your HUD.

#3641344 - 09/09/12 08:29 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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I am having some trouble using the GBU-12s. My issues start at this part:

Quote:
Press NWS (INSERT) (turns laser on) and Press "TMS FORWARD LONG" (Up + LCtrl) to mark / create a way-point for your sensor (creates SPI). Press again NWS (INSERT) to turn off laser.


Insert is the key I press on the keyboard, correct? When I press it I don't see the little L appear on my HUD. I am using the default control layout for the keyboard.

And can someone explain in more detail what the CHINA HAT FORWARD SHORT" (V) is supposed to do?

On the HUD I do see the straight vertical line with the small dot, though by the line it gets aligned I am essentially on top of the target, though judging by the screen shots that should be correct. When the dot gets inside of the circle I hear a noise and I am able to drop my bombs, though they don't seem to guide at all.

So I believe I am doing something incorrectly with the laser. Any input would be appreciated.

#3641358 - 09/09/12 09:11 PM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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The nose wheel steering button (default keyboard insert) is either a momentary or toggle for the TGP laser, depending on the TGP latch setting. Personally I use auto lase, 10 sec for most deliveries; one less thing to worry about. The solid L (or P or B depending on mode) on the HUD (same on the TGP page) displays indicating that the laser is armed. The L should then flash when the laser is activated. No L is likely laser arm switch not in the arm position.

China hat forward usually changes the view for sensors. TGP and Maverick toggle between narrow and wide field of view, and TAD cycles through the expanded views. The oddballs are HUD SOI: the HUD-to-MAV SOI shortcut and uncaging the AIM-9.

CCRP for LGBs will use the "3/9" release constraint which just requires you pass the release point in space for release. For release above 10,000' the "basket" for acceptable releases is huge. I'd bet you'd have to miss the ideal solution by more than a half mile to miss.

Failure to guide can really be one of three things:
1. No laser emission
2. Laser emission mis-match with bomb code setting
3. Bomb seeker not within angle/range limits of the reflected emission
This is also the order I would check for faults.

#3725325 - 01/26/13 08:42 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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First of all thanks for this basic yet to the point guide.

However, I has a problem creating proper SPIs and therefore my bombs miss all the time.

To practice the procedure I targetted some large appartment buildings from a straight and level flight at around 8000 AGL, roughly 10nm out. With latch set to ON and the laser toggled on I aimed the TGP to make an SPI at the fifth or sixth story which is about half way up the building. According to ExcessiveHeadspace's video on how the TGP operates, the laser should prevent the TGP from seeing through the building and using geo data to calculate the SPI on the Earth's surface behind the building, but instead should make it possible to create an SPI at the location the way it shows up under my TGP's crosshair. However, it keeps creating the SPI beyond the building from my POV.

Am I doing something wrong or is non mission critical scenery like appartment buildings not included as an object in the context of targetting?

#3725706 - 01/27/13 12:26 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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Normal LGB delivery does not require "which floor" accuracy. You could drop the bomb aimed at a house down the block and laser guidance would still steer the bomb onto your spot. I've purposefully dropped a whole nautical mile from my desired impact point and the bomb was able to steer onto target. Precision SPIs are important for guided weapons without terminal guidance, specifically JDAM and to a lesser extent WCMD, not for LGBs.

8000' is rather low for a LGB delivery. By the time the bomb rotates nose down and can see the laser it's even lower. There's not too much time to correct. A tall building, low altitude, fast speed, and the fact that the default delivery intentionally misses long could all potentially combine to produce a delivery which is beyond the bomb's ability to steer nose down onto the laser spot.

One would attempt to fly higher, fly slower, set delivery point at the base of building, dive to rotate the bomb for guidance sooner, or some combination of those. Try various situations and watch the weapon in flight using the F6 view. See how the bomb acts under various conditions.

As for precision locations using the TGP, which I repeat should not be at all required for a successful LGB attack, you want to make sure the laser is operating (L or B) and within ~8nm range. Turn on the coordinate display at the bottom of the MFCD and watch the coordinates/elevation shift between laser on and off. Laser ranging should be very steady and different than passive ranging.

#3726262 - 01/28/13 08:31 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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Federf, as much as I appreciate your explanations on bombing and the differences between JDAMs and LGBs, I think either I did not explain my issue correctly or you missed my point a bit.

The actual delivery of ordnance is a 2nd step in the process where I fail to perform the 1st step properly. I can't set the SPI where I want it to be for some reason. I hope my MS Paint art does the explanation for me.



I aim the TGP with the laser ON (either L or B flashing) at the side of the building (marked A) while setting an SPI. After I set the SPI I turn off the laser and do not touch slew TGP or anything else. By the time I fly over the building I noticed my SPI is not set where I wanted it but instead beyond the building on the Earth's surface (marked B). Like I was not using the laser and the pod instead calculated the SPI coords using geo data.

Why doesn't the pod create an SPI at the side of the building where the laser is aiming? Why does it 'look through' the building regardless of the laser being turned on?

#3726677 - 01/29/13 12:19 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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Putting aside how necessary or not precision SPI is for LGB delivery;

I see your problem and it can be cleared up with a more careful use of vocabulary. You say "set the SPI" as if it was a location that could be created or saved. SPI doesn't work this way. SPI is a constantly-updated location defined by a sensor. The pilot does not have control over the SPI directly, but merely "selecting a sensor as the SPI generator."

When you select the TGP as the SPI generator the data that defines the SPI is being constantly informed in value by the data stream from the TGP. As the TGP's point of interest (POI) changes, the SPI changes in lockstep. During passive ranging the TGP's POI was "B" and the SPI was here as well. During active ranging the TGP's POI shifted to "A" as did the SPI. When active ranging was disabled the POI (and SPI) shifted back to "B."

Try doing the same experiment with "A" and "B" but this time make mark points while the laser is on and off then compare the two markpoint position data.

#3727559 - 01/30/13 08:08 AM Re: How to use weapons - Picture guide: GBU-12, GBU-38, AGM-65 and GRS to CDU(Revised - Now with keyboard commands) [Re: Sim]  
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Got it. Confused SPI and Mark point indeed. SPI seems indeed only the point the sensor aims at whereas Mark point is an actual registered point/location.

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