I use steam, but I can see where it comes unstuck. Namely games like ARMA that have the capability to be heavily modded and haven't really been designed with Steam in mind (I didn't get ARMAII on steam for this very reason, guys I play online with have no end of issues with major mods). I would strongly recommend that if you go the steam path, serious thought is put into how future additions or community content (if you allow it that is) will be handled.

That said, at the end of the day, I'll use steam to get it if no other option exists. But I would much prefer an independent release with some kind of licensing arrangement and/or distribution through a means that doesn't require a net connection to play.

I like the idea of expansions being released off the initial game, keeps the money flowing and with the right DRM arrangement, keeps the playerbase honest. I will be quite happy to put some money your way if an open beta ala DCS A10C comes along.

Thanks for the continuing input on the matter.

My concerns are mostly about user experience, the wealth of mods that effect a game (even path versions) can have the effect of fragmenting on-line community.

Personally I'm opposed to any form of DRM and keen on an 'opt in' registration which allows access to updates and new goodies. Value added content encourages you to do the right thing. Like having an MMO account but you can play off-line whenever you want.

Downside is that for any user mods of textures etc, there's a chance it will get 'update' and replaced if they are part of embedded objects. Vehicle skins won't be effected by updates. And possibly custom maps later on.

We're still arguing about add-ons like new aircraft and missions as DLC or full price stand-alone games (like Strike Fighters). Until the economics are clearer post release I don't think we'll get to a decision on that. It has to pay for itself.

Whatever your decision will be, please consider merging next products with Combat Helo into one application. There is one thing I really HATE in LO/DCS - Flaming Cliffs 2, Black Shark and Warthog are different games, and they need different patches to be compatible online. Why they did such thing, I have no idea.

One question that maybe you can't response. Is the first title aimed for a 2011 release?

There's no problem with steam Arma and mods. Hell you can even double click the arma executable and it launches without even touch Steam. There was a problem with a delayed arma 2 patch (i think it was 1.06 or 1.07) in Steam platform but it was Bohemia fault afaik, and you could use at that time the regular patch instead of wait for Steam update. Other steam arma patches went smooth and been released at the same time as regular ones.

Steam is one of the greates tools for game delivery but it got a bit of bad reputation years ago and there is ppl that thinks it's still the same. A mith in most cases.

Yeah, yeah... And you're forgetting the "headache" that was to install the Combined Operations version of ArmA2 (ArmA2 + Op. Arrowhead). With the Steam version in order to merge the ArmA2 and Op. Arrowhead together (ArmA2 Combined Operations) you had to edit config files and other stuff! With the "normal" DVD version the Op. Arrowhead install program would detect the previously installed ArmA2 and do the merge by itself (automatically).

I understand that Steam may have some interesting features, but please STOP defending whats not "defensable" like for example blaiming other companies (such as BIS) for the Steam failures!

Ah Heck... use torrents Like DCS does and we can pay by paypal to help Beta test it. I know nothing about selling through steam but I bet its a minor pain in the neck and then they will want a cut.

Once it goes gold, add an arcade mode (no doubt with Nicolas Cage's voice in game) then bring in steam to push units out the door so Flex can buy a Ferrari and a Gulfstream.... he'll deserve it

I'll be happy to payback the costs of development and any left overs to contributors and then maybe get my teeth fixed. I did careful numbers on Steam and other electronic distribution methods before we re-opened the project. It's not that bad, something like $0.30 plus 3% for which you get access to a huge potential target audience and hardware/sales statistics. I'm reminded to KISS (keep it simple stupid) and worry about such things later after we get it completed, testing will be done using the built-in downloader and initially by invitation only.

As an aside DefJeff, your post made my chuckle. I'm more of a Lamborghini than Ferrari guy though I'm content with virtual versions although I wouldn't mind experiencing what's it like to drive one before I die. I can't speak for Dave though, but I think he deserves it more than me, technical art is a lot of work.

Merry Christmas all.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

ya flex... Id rather have a lambo than a ferrari too. My friends and i ran a racing league on GTR2 for a while and the ferraris always won but the lambos were sweet cars.... I ran the Saleen which I really liked.

I hope i get to drive a car with less than 100,000 miles on it before i die. LOL

3% is really low for Steam's cut. Im surprised. do they ding you for bandwidth on top of the %?

NOW GET BACK TO WORK DAMN YOU!!!!! holidays are over.

Thanks

Jeff

Indeed Steam provide the bandwidth too. It's really up to individual developers how they implement the Steam SDK, what features they adopt. It's way more developer friendly than Apple, but the flip side of that is that the end user experience can vary too.

Tricubic is dealing with legal matters involving financing, holidays or not. My family is more important and the kids don't go back to school till the New Year but I won't bore you with that. Also my lad got a cool radio controlled M26 tank that's pretty realistic, lot of fun to er research.

well thats not a bad deal.

Those RC tanks are amazing! the stuff on them is really something to behold. U need to get a scale apache to blow it up/

Hey enjoy your rest... you deserve it.

BTW I got a Saitek X65 if you want to see how it does for flight testing.

Jeff

In the case of this particular game it varies as to who caused particular issues. Fact is, the end user was disadvantaged for the reason Ricnunes points out and this caused several people who orignally had the steam version to buy non-steam versions of the game (not happy campers) and a couple of guys to just throw it in altogether.

I'm just keen to see this doesn't happen with Combat Helo because unless DCS does a longbow module, CH is the only show in town with a well modelled apache on a reasonable 3D engine.

I have to say, I'm +1 for steam. It's the least intrusive form of DRM I've seen that still seems to keep a developers software secure. I've also installed each of my steam games many times, due to hardware failure, upgrades, etc. I've yet to be told I'm out of installs.

Plus, it would be good for CH from a marketing standpoint. Far more people will see the "coming soon" listing on steam than they will on SimHQ. The same goes for DLC, such as the planned chinook expansion. It's a fantastic way to both market and deploy these add-ons.

The issues start to surface when games are distributed both through steam, AND sans-steam via retail, such as Arma. Although I've never had an issue running IL2 1946 with mods through steam, or using Fallout: new Vegas with mods. The key is to be either all Steam, or no Steam.

Frankly,Saying that BI, who shipped Arma II with more bugs than an ant farm, is completely innocent, raises an eyebrow. Most likely, any issues have been miss-communication from both parties.


Finally, as far as Steam being an additional memory foot print, I've got 4 gigs of ram and have yet to feel it. If your still using 2 gigs of ram in 2011 (for front-line gaming at least), I think it's time to upgrade...

I look forward to you releasing this title independent of Steam. Personally, I'd much rather buy from developers directly as to cut out the middleman. After recently experiencing how direct download titles can leave a customer at the mercy of the merchant if and when something goes wrong (in my case they suspected fraud which, in their eyes, was a license to actually defraud me) I am probably never going to buy games using that model again.

Than NO Steam for me!
I don't mind having more than one distribution method (including Steam) for combat-helo or any other game but sugesting that combat-helo or any other game be released by Steam only, specially in order to solve Steam's problems and/or limitation is just plain stupid and ridiculous!




The problem is that Steam has lots of other problems (and you just mentioned another annoying one) but it seems that no matter what problems Steam have a "Steam fanatic" just as yourself wont acknowlege it and wont acknowlege how bad is to have a game distributed by Steam only, even because this will limit the customers purchase options!

I'd really like to see this released through multiple distributors rather than only Steam. GamersGate is a good alternative. Steam has been the LAST distrubutor to release some recent games I've purchased, and I'm an impatient gamer...


If you still need a female voice actress, can I recommend someone? She's an amateur but personally I believe she could easily be pro. She's done voiceovers for 2 videos I've made plus a TON of other videos by other people. Her website is here: Sonya's Website Her audio equipment is good, and she responds quickly to queries and will redo something if it isn't quite right without taking offense. Definitely worth a look especially if you're on a budget.