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#3136858 - 11/13/10 11:45 PM Noob question on LB2 upgrade options  
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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Hi to all and thanks for a great site to keep the old games going.

I recently found my old copy of LB2 thumbsup and installed it on an old computer that crashed years ago that was laying around the house. (It is a Pentium 3 w/ 768 mb ram, using a 1755mb pagefile. Since I couldn't find any updates for win 95, I installed Win XP sp3 w/ DX9.0c on it. Video card is an old nVidia Geforce Ti 200 w/ 64mb ram @1024x768. Plus an Audigy 1 sound card. Input is with a MS Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick.)

So far, it appears to be running w/o any problems. cool I am still on the training flights to become more proficient in NOE (bouncing), dizzy oops, I mean flying. Other segments of the game ( helos, instant action and single missions... did not test campaigns yet.) seem to be functioning properly. Only tweak applied so far is Win 95 compatability mode to the OS.

I would like to improve the graphics and "retain the politically incorrect language". LB2 is a fresh install w/o any upgrades or tweaks. I read + G's install guide and have all the necessary files for D3D. As patch 2.09e filters out the colorful language, is there any way of turning the colorful comments back on? If not then I have to go to plan B.

Plan Bs' question would be three part:

1. Will the glide wrapper work with my video card described above?

2. Which would be the better glide wrapper to use with my system?

3. Can the glide wrapper be used w/o the 2.09e patch or D3D file?


Thanks in advance for all your assistance.

OleGreyGhost


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
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#3136909 - 11/14/10 02:20 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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Recluse Offline
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The Glide Wrapper should work with your card. The wrapper could be used without the patch or D3D file. In fact, you really don't need the D3D update at all, but it gives you options in case the Glide Wrapper doesn't work.

As far as the colorful language, I don't think it is removed from the patch. There is an .ini file option that lets you toggle it off if you want:

Quote:

4. The abililty to filter harsh language

Some users have complained about the harsh language used in the line of
the computer controlled Copilot/Gunner. Users can now turn off those
lines. To do so, go into your Longbow 2 directory, and double click on
the file CA.INI. At the top of the file, where it says:

[Init]

Add the line:

NoCuss=1

So that it now says

[Init]
NoCuss=1



The patched version will give you the best experience, so go for it and don't worry about never hearing "S@#$ We're HIT!!"


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

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Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
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#3136917 - 11/14/10 02:53 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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PA, USA
Recluse, thank you for the timely reply.


I looked thru the CA.ini file , but didn't see any mention about the "cussing". Can't use special features until someone reveals the proper commands. I am going to try the video tweaks in the ini files first, then I will patch the game and probably use the DGVooDoo wrapper. If the wrapper fails, I can fall back to the D3D patch.

I'll report back on the progress.

OleGreyGhost exitstageleft


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3137143 - 11/14/10 05:10 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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Recluse Offline
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If the NOCUSS line is NOT in the .ini, then Cussing is ON by default. If you wish to turn it OFF, you have to add the line.

No Line = Cussing.

Last edited by Recluse; 11/14/10 05:11 PM.

Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3137403 - 11/15/10 03:37 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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Posts: 21
PA, USA
I did have some success with the upgrade & some glitches.

I applied the upgrade patch & game is still running.

Then the DDU patch & the D3D patch. Game runs, but the view out ot the cockpit is grayed out. Cannot see any detail or textures.

Applied the DGVooDoo wrapper and I now have LB2 running.

Did not improve the graphics that much. I did see a definite improvement in the FX (explosions & smoke trails).

I tried a set of ini tweaks from flyboys' site, but it causes tearing in the cockpit MFDs. No problem there, just go back to original ini files. Will experiment with those later.

As for the language, its gone. Doesn't work with or without the NoCuss entry. Referencing your quote above, I found this info in the 2209 patch notes after the semi-colon:

Quote:
:\line\line [Init]\line\line Add the line:\line\line NoCuss=1\line\line So that it now says\line\line [Init]\line NoCuss=1\line\line\par
\pard\tx0\tx959\tx1918\tx2877\tx3836\tx4795\tx5754\tx6713\tx7672\tx8631\f0\fs20\par
\pard\f2\par


I have an idea what it is, just not how to decode it to use in the ini file. Hope you can point me in the right direction.

Thanks again, OleGreyGhost


PS: Thank you flyboy for providing the files & info to improve an old classic...

Last edited by OleGreyGhost; 11/15/10 03:48 AM.

P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3137678 - 11/15/10 04:30 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2006
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Flyboy Offline
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Cussing remains ON by default after patch install, you physically have to turn it OFF. There is only one speech line in LB2 that uses a cuss word, when the Co-Pilot yells "Sh*t we're hit!" You aren't going to hear that too often (and I doubt you have yet, so soon after re-install) hopefully though so how can you tell if it works or not with or without the NoCuss line!?

Remember to set your new preferred display mode in the DDU (lb2cfg.exe) or you won't actually be enabling D3D or 3DFX mode - even if you have installed a Glide wrapper!

Go here to see info about the Display Modes in LB2:
http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/display.html

Go here for a Display Modes comparison:
http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/gfx/gfx.html

Thanks Recluse for stepping in and helping out as I didn't see this topic until today. Me and just a couple others seem to be the LB2 teachers now, I think I'm gonna start charging money!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

#3138205 - 11/16/10 07:04 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2010
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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OleGreyGhost  Offline
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Posts: 21
PA, USA
Flyboy, thanks for the reply and the welcome. Sorry for the delay to respond. The comp that LB2 is on doesn't have internet access, plus its in the basement. (Great exercise).

As far as the cussing goes it was probably just my perception. Seemed like I heard it at least once a session, only got back into the game in the last twoweeks

Hopefully I can get close to your display modes. When I originally got LB2, I only had an underpowered P II.

Corrected the tearing problem with the MFDs by using some of your glide wrapper settings, specifically turning on hardware T&L.

I have some questions about the ini files, but I'll leave them for a separate post

Will experiment some more and report back.


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3138855 - 11/17/10 03:32 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
OleGreyGhost Offline
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Posts: 21
PA, USA
I went thru the lb2cfg and it is set to other. Tried some more of the combinations, but no luck. The cockpit is visible, but outside the windscreen it looks like the helo is wrapped in a grey fog. There is just a hint of the tower in front of the helo.

The glide wrapper uses DX7 w/o any problems. Trying to use DX9 causes a ctd.

Here is a screen shot of what I have so far :




Your opinion would be greatly valued as to how I am progressing with this so far.

Are there any other hardware tweaks that I can try?

Thanks for your time & guidance.

Last edited by OleGreyGhost; 11/21/10 08:10 AM. Reason: fix link

P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3139041 - 11/17/10 02:35 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,387
Flyboy Offline
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Generally don't bother with using Direct3D in the lb2cfg, go straight to 3DFX mode and use a glide wrapper, I see you have now used the glide wrapper successfully. Most here use dgVoodoo.

From that screenshot I'm guessing you are forcing a higher screen resolution through the glide wrapper, due to the blocky HMD text and cockpit lines?

You should generally setup your dgVoodoo config like this:





Apart from that, there's not much else you can do.

#3139343 - 11/17/10 08:19 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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Posts: 21
PA, USA
Flyboy, thanks for the reply.

I see that I can still tweak this just a bit further. The instructions I downloaded for the above wrapper didn't show the two boxes under miscellaneous as being checked. I give that a try and let you know if it shows any improvement.


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3139747 - 11/18/10 12:53 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,387
Flyboy Offline
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Posts: 3,387
England, UK
You won't really see too much - if any - improvement from enabling those options under Misc. By forcing triple buffering you are basically enabling it in games that don't have it built-in, but this option (before multi-core CPUs at least) was just another thing to try and slow down the game without using a CPU limiter program, as triple buffering used to slow a games framerate down (on older PCs).

I don't really know what the Glide-gammaramp does, but I've found that it can sometimes allow players to change their gamma settings in-game better - as for some people the built-in gamma settings don't work on newer video cards.

#3140298 - 11/19/10 04:03 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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PA, USA
You were right. They didn't show any improvement. In fact forcing the mipmapping or buffering caused a ctd. Using the gamaramp didn't cause a crash, but did produce this result:




This was the same MFD tearing described in previous post.

Is this tearing caused by overloading the memory?

I tried the vertex shaders, didn't hurt anything, but I can't see any difference.

Went back to the original ini files and increased the screensize to 1280x960.





What is your opinion of the last pic? Can this be tweaked any further?

Appreciate all your help...

PS: I apologize for the links, banghead I am still trying to figure them out


Last edited by OleGreyGhost; 11/21/10 08:13 AM. Reason: fix link

P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3140428 - 11/19/10 12:59 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,387
Flyboy Offline
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England, UK
Well I can honestly say that I've never seen that MFD-blending-into-UFD problem before as seen in your first link. Weird. I wouldn't think it could be caused by 'overloading the memory', what are you running a 286!?

I think you've got it about as good as you can get it in the last pic, and just so you know the cockpit lines or 'tearing' as you call it is down to you forcing a higher screen res than the game's default of 640x480.

Of course, you may like to try the terrain and trees mod:


Damage mod:


And on-foot mode:

#3140976 - 11/20/10 03:31 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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Nice shots. Your expertise w/ photo retouching is very good. Shame they never put the trees into the game.

Quote:
what are you running a 286!?
I am using a P III @ 1.0 Ghz. Finally got around to updating my sig.

Here is a preview of what I have so far:



After banghead for over an hour, my daughter notworthy comes in and we get a proper picture in less than 30 seconds. clapping

Now to figure out what she did.

I am going to go over the ini files, but I'll leave that for a sepaarate post. Thanks for all your assistance.

We can consider this resolved.

P.S. Caught the trees in another post...

Last edited by OleGreyGhost; 11/21/10 08:15 AM. Reason: fix link

P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3141138 - 11/20/10 02:33 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Damn, you didn't fall for the ol' fake terrain and trees. I had caught out people before who thought they were real mods. I thought I could catch you out, as you are a self-confessed 'Noob'. frown thumbsup

P.S. That last image you linked has been removed, as have the other two you posted earlier.

#3141218 - 11/20/10 05:04 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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Recluse Offline
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Heh.. you caught ME out!!! I remember when you last posted it..but I am always hoping smile

Last edited by Recluse; 11/20/10 08:05 PM.

Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3141227 - 11/20/10 05:26 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: Recluse]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: Recluse
Heh.. you caught ME out!!!


What, this time or when I first posted ages ago? I didn't think a veteran like you would be fooled! The shots I posted are actually three mock-up shots for potential features in Longbow 3 - found on my site here...

http://digitality.comyr.com/flyboy/lb2/lbx/lb3.html

#3141539 - 11/21/10 08:44 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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PA, USA
Repaired the links.

I am a noob. I just read reading a lot of posts & caught your pictures. Just read on, you'll see.

Murphy paid me a visit today. Went to collect some info for the post about the ini files and couldn't resist running LB2. To my surprise, mycomputer gave me a message "could not find CD" with some memory error. I could. It was in the drive.

So for now memtest has control of the machine. I hope to have it sorted out by tomorrow. Let you know how it turns out. goodnight


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
#3141748 - 11/21/10 07:28 PM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,398
Recluse Offline
Mediocrity Above All!
Recluse  Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,398
Randolph, NJ
OK.. I seem to recall there was something weird going on when the CD 2 was used as a key (as it would be if you wanted AZR terrain). If I recall correctly, it turns OFF Autoplay (though it shouldn't affect FINDING the CD). If it was CD 2, then try with CD 1 and see if it puts it to rights.

Even better... get hold of Daemon Tools, rip an .iso or .nrg from your LB2 CD's and store them somewhere where Daemon tools can mount them. Map updates are ultra quick and no need to swap CD's around in the drive and risk damage.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3142007 - 11/22/10 04:58 AM Re: Noob question on LB2 upgrade options [Re: OleGreyGhost]  
Joined: Nov 2010
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OleGreyGhost Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 21
PA, USA
Hi guys. Well memtest says everything is OK. LB2 still can't find the CD. This is the error that came up.

"Error opening file -- Check CD is in drive -..\data\iff\popup.iff"

Searched for the file {popup.iff}. Could not find it on my system or the CD. After the third try, XP wanted to send an error report.
"Instruction at 0x2000d8bd referenced memory at 0x01f92108 - The memory could not be read". This is what lead me to believe there was a memory problem.

So then, I figured the file {popup.iff} was compressed somewhere in the install package. Removed and re-installed LB2. Everything was fine. When I replaced the original ini files with the ones I was working with, next time I loaded LB2 the error was back.

Long story, short, one line was missing in the CA.ini file referencing the 209 upgrade patch. Somehow I mixed up the files.duh

So LB2 is running fine again.

Flyboy, what I meant was "overloading the video memory". The video card only has 64Mb. Pretty anemic in todays rigs.

Recluse, thanks for the heads up on the tools, I will give that a try. Yeah, these disks are getting into my age old_simmer bracket. I gather you still need CD1 in the drive to run the game??

Thanks for all the assistance.


P III @ 1.0 Ghz
Tyan M/B (S 1854 Trinity 400) w/ 768mb ram
Win XP Pro w/ SP 3 & Dx 9.0c 1280x960
Nvidia GeForce Ti 200 (AGP 4x) w/ 64mb ram
SB Audigy Platinum Sound w/ Digital speakers
Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick
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