Title says it all Im concerned with the reliability of this HOTAS anyone owning it and having issues/experiences good or bad please feel free to relate .I dont care about the stiff throttle I plan to hard mount mine I mainly concerned with any G940 Logitech type stuff(sounds like that thing is a nightmare)I have 28 days to return it so any feedback will be appreciated and may save me a LOT of headaches

Thanx in advance

Skip,

You have another thread, in this same forum, currently right below this thread. You started off that thread by asking the same question you did in this thread.

To make things even weirder, you just posted in the other thread that you just bought an X-65F. What gives? There's no need for both of these threads.

Its not really the same question Im asking any OWNERs if they are having difficulties the other thread was for anyone owners or not what they think, two completely different questions Joe

I responded to your post before your edited it, so just ignore the mounting comments I guess...

I've only had it since July, but I haven't had any problems with it personally in terms of quality. No broken or loose components and no jitter from any of the axis'(rotaries, stick, split throttle), etc. Of course, the big test is a year or two later as Saitek is typically not know for their quality, but maybe no moving parts on at least the stick will address that. If you don't have a way to secure it whether it be industrial strength velcro or bolted down, I wouldn't recommend it though.

I say that because you might find the throttle too stiff initially where it doesn't stay in place if you don't have it secured, but after a few weeks of use, it is no longer an issue as I tested it unsecured, but I still prefer bolted down. And then of course, there is the force sensing stick where you are applying force to the stick itself instead of moving a handle, so if you like to apply a stronger level of force before it responds, which is my personal preference, you'll want the stick to be secured.

A lot of it also depends on what you fly as well. If you only fly WW1 and WW2 aircraft, a force sensing stick won't quite have the right feel, but is doable and this would be applicable to chopper sims as well. With that said, I still use the CH Products gear for those types of sims. Now if you primarily fly jet sims and/or space combat games, I think it is a very good solution and feels natural in relation to flying the aircraft and in twitch space combat games, I found it improved my accuracy just because of the smooth control of force sensing.

If you have no experience with a force sensing stick, I would definitely recommend getting it from a place where you could return it if you don't like it, because some people get catch right on with using a force sensing stick, while others will absolutely hate it and never catch on. For me at least, I caught on pretty fast where it was completely natural. Results will definitely vary.

what I fear is the mess G940 owners are having right now and if thats the case with the Saitek(New technology) itll go back in a flash so all pertinent info will be Greatly appreciated OWNERS ONLY PLEASE

My words might fall on deaf ears, as I'm not an X65 owner, but take this for what it is: The only thread in the "Saitek" section of the controller forum is about issues with the programing software. The overall problem is the manus don't profit off software upgrades/support. Logitech is a prime example: Shoe honing the G940 into software intended for steering wheels and gaming mice, as the margins on a $300 video game controller are too low to justify the dedicated software it needs. The issues with Saitek always seem to come back to long term reliability (which no one will be able to give you a straight answer for, as the X65 fleet is still too young) and poor software. You can test the latter on your own, and arrive are your own conclusions.

To put a bow on it: Your well aware of the G940 issues, but your not aware of any real X65 issues, save for the stick itself being force sensing (a polarizing design choice), and stiff throttles, which you already have an in place solution for. So no, this isn't a G940.

One final edit: If you truly want an "OWNERS ONLY PLEASE" thread, I here Saitek has just the thing....

I have had no problems with my X65 as far as quality of build has gone. All the buttons, switches, axis and rotary's work, nothings broken, or fallen off. I did purchase direct from Madcatz, the 3 year warranty was extended to 5 years, so I feel pretty safe in the purchase. I have a simple requirement of any purchase, that it work, and so far the Saitek works. I dumped my Cougar, because it didn't work.. and became a job instead of a hobby to use it. I also have a complete CH setup, that I've had zero problems with, and one can't fault the support one bit.

Only reportable problem I've had with X65, is some times the mouse pointer had a mind of its own. Upon release, it would continue to wander on its own little way across the screen. Moving the mouse controller back to center, instead of just releasing it would stop it. The latest Saitek software, or a Windows update seems to have corrected this on both an XP and Win7 x64 machine. Don't really know who to give credit too, but its fixed.

Saitek's support site could be better, but worth checking out if your going to purchase the stick. The software? Like anything it takes learning, and the best way for that is to use it. Can more be done with the Cougar/Warthog and CH software? From what I've read I think so, but post here and other places confirms that the trustmaster software is a work in progress too. An argument could be made on how many combination key codes can one use? let alone remember. Any game controller in the $400 plus range, Logitech , Saitek, or Thrustmaster, should do what its designed to do, plain and simple.

Like anything, every high priced controller is going to have a want/correct list, from the hardware to the software. For me the X65-F is a quality set. Do I like my CH set.. yes. The Warthog, me, I'll wait, if the build is as good as everyone is hoping and reported, with no reliability problems (rule #1, its got to work, rule #2 not be more trouble then its worth) I'll have one on my desk too.

Saitek software is in a distinct class below the capabilities of Thrustmaster software (be it Foxy or T.A.R.G.E.T.) and/or CH Control Manager. While it's true that T.A.R.G.E.T. is an still-improving product, it already outshines SST by a large margin.

Not everyone wants or needs this capability, so it may not matter to some. However, compared to some other controllers available for a similar price, the X-65F software capabilities are quite limited.

The most thing that Im disappointed about this product is something "rudeness" of the product since its by no means low price joystick.

As is mentioned on SimHQ review, on sensitive force settings, XY axis go out of the center and the biggest problem about this one is that the Saitek didnt produce a calibration feature for it.
Dont you think, precision of XY axis is the most basic factor to determine the quality of the joystick?

Some claims that this can be solved by setting deadzone but I do not recommend doing so.
With this stick, the more sensitive force settings you set, the more (especially )X axis goes to the left of the center.
When it is going -3.0 from the center, you set deadzone for 3.1, but this means, you need to make a +6.1 pressure for the initial of a right roll while only -0.1 pressure is needed for a left roll.
You can clearly feel this gap and obviously this is uncomfortable.

Back to the XY alignment problem, this was really problematic when operating hover mode in Blackshark and even in Falcon.
Therefore you will be forced to use above certain force settings.

Software has some bug that is for critical for some user and the problem is that the bug that has been pointed out 7 months ago, is not addressed yet.
Unlike other company, flight stick is not the only product Saitek cares as they are expanding their market place.
However this can't be a reason. Why does customer need to care the circumstance of company since they demanded us a good price for this product?

I received mine on 20 August 2010 and all I can say is wow, In Il2, Black shark, DCS a10c, it is just fantastic. I can not speak about the controller software as I have all the keys setup in game menus only. SO far I see no issues with it. I will report back at about the year mark and see how it goes.



Bullet

I would avoid the X-65F like a plague until Saitek starts responding to their customer's issues.

Complaints have been on the Saitek official forum now for over six months regarding the calibration issue (mine is offset to the left, and my mini-stick mouse is also not centered), and Saitek's responses clearly demonstrate they could care less about their customers post-purchase.

The only answer you're like to get from "UKSupport" is "We're looking into it...I'll get back when I have some news."

That's the same story he's given for the past six months regarding the calibration flaw (how does a $300 joystick NOT have a self-calibration button????). It is also the response given as to whether or not mounting plates for the second unit (throttle or stick can be mounted, not both) are available for purchase.

In short, I wish I'd held out for the Warthog HOTAS.

Ive already taken it back (only had it a week)after buying the Saitek/mad cat cyborg rat 7mouse (piece of junk)I figured it would be the same with the X65 so back it went,Saitek has always been really slow to help their customers post purchase also I didnt have a lot of faith in the long term reliabilty of that technology after some thought

My X-65 does have a very small offset on the x axis in the windows control panel. In the Saitek profile editor it is dead center. I have yet to see this have any effect on operation in a game. i.e. no drift to the left as some are reporting. The throttle mouse shows a larger offset in the windows control panel (no option to test this in the profile editor). Again this hasn't been a problem, I've adjusted the mini stick sensitivity with the Siatek profile editor to the point where the mini stick is much more useful and controlable.

If your stick will not hold its center (ie drifting in games), I would be returning it on a warranty claim. How good the warranty service is, I hope I won't have to find out.

I was one of the first ones to bring up on the Saitek forum about wanting to purchase an extra plate, which seems to have fallen on deaf ears. The simple work around if you don't want to hard attached the throttle is some Velcro, and little super glue and problem solved

I've had pretty good luck with Saitek's basic sticks and other products, that's what pushed me in the direction of the X65. Customer support by Saitek no doubt could stand to be improved. And again, though its been beaten to death, CH and Thrustmaster software is capable of much more then Saitek's. But does everyone need or want to learn programing to get your HOTAS buttons to do what you need to. Like all software the Saitek profile editor is a work in progress.. I guess the million dollar (or #300) question is when will that progress be made.

Is the X65 perfect, far from it... is it a piece of junk, far from that too. Just another choice to consider before putting a HOTAS on your desktop.

Bottom line: The X-65F has its benefits, BUT

If you're comfortable having spent $300 or more dollars on a joystick that can't center itself then all the power to you. However the "official" response is to unplug the joystick, delete some registry entries, and reconnect the joystick repeatedly until you get a 'center' that works.

This is unacceptable for a supposed top-end product. Saitek CLEARLY doesn't care about their customers, or it wouldn't take six months+ to resolve such a ridiculous issue.

We've complained: they've done nothing.
We complained more: they still do nothing.
Now I'm taking this fight to you, the reader, so that you realize before you spend your hard-earned cash on something like this, that there are better options on the market from companies that aren't complete sh** like Saitek.

Don't support their company until they support their customers.

This is exactly what I was looking for in my original post and I had a feeling it was a bad decision to buy Saitek and I switched to the Warthog lets hope I dont regret it, the reviews so far on the WH are mixed with some issues already.
My biggest problem with Saitek is the shoddy way they treat their customers after the sale and on high end (expensive equipment )this IS NOT ACCEPTABLE thanks to the people in this forum we have a powerful weapon to not buy shoddy products with fancy packaging and even fancier prices The Rat7 cyborg mouse come to mind..................... Caveat emtor

People following this topic may be interested in a recent review at this link

AVSIM X-65F Review

(don't know if I did the link right so here it is.. long hand http://www.avsim.com/pages/1010/Saitek/X65.html)

Lots of good pictures of the X65, and another review to help anyone make a choice.

If you move to the middle of the review, they have a jpg of the Saitek settings page, which clearly shows the stick center as being off. One problem that has been brought up here.





The above images are of my Win7 x64 system. The stick in Saiteks Profile editor is centered.
The stick in the control panel is just off to the left, about the thickness of the x axis line.
The mouse is off more, to the lower right. Again I have had no problems with either the stick or mouse in any program. While the mouse is certainly off center more, I seem to remember my CH throttle mouse having the center. For me? Its a problem, that isn't a problem.

Saitek tech support's recommend fix is as discribed in an earlier post by JCav. They also recommend trying your controller on another computer and if you can not get the stick to center that it should be returned for warranty. If JCav has returned his stick and had it replaced, and has the exact same problem, then I can understand his displeasure with Saitek.

I've read in other forums, of X65F owners with the center problem, claiming a MS update fixed the problem.. like my run away mouse mentioned earlier, I can't confirm that. Never had the stick center problem, and my mouse is fixed. Would be interested if other X65 owners have had the center problem and if it was fixed by Saiteks tech support fix?

Hi CBR9, did you confirm your XY stays in the center even on the lower force settings? (F4)
I always keep my OS updated however the problem still remains.

btw it broght me another problem.
Even if it is physically keep connected to USB, I sometimes hear the USB disconnecting/connecting sound from Windows OS. this happens about 4 times a day.
When that happens, LED light goes OFF with the disconnecting sound then goes ON with the connecting sound.
I have tried several USB port but still no luck.

My env is Win7 Home 32bit, Asus P7P55D-E lx

On all four force settings the center remains the same as in the jpgs I posted. The mouse if off center more then the stick, but again, my CH throttle mouse had the exact same offset.

I live dangerous and have my windows updates on auto. So I can't say if something MS did or updated helped with the center problem, beacuse I never really had it. My X65 throttle mouse did repair itself.

My X65 is connected to a powered hub along with CH rudder pedals, Thrustmaster MFD's and Tracir. All play well together. I have three computers running through one keyboard and monitor using Input Director to choose the active screen/computer. When playing a sim I forgo Input Director, which doesn't play well with most games. From time to time, I also hear the "chime" of some usb device connecting, but my X65, or MFD's have never blinked off. I route the monitor connection through a Roswell HDMI switch, and I think this is were my USB chime is coming from, but can't say that for sure (when switching display source I get the "ding"). But haven't notice any usb device going offline...

Have you been able to test your stick on another computer? Do you have a powered USB hub that you would be able to try? When your lights go off line does the controller stop working? I've read on other forums that people have the occasional "ding" and say its a power distribution issue with windows... You might be interested in this link

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=61851&page=2

I don't see why they can't add a button to bloody centre the thing. The one I have tends to 'hang to the right', especially after use. One of the reasons I programmed a virtual stick into my game, so you can offset an input how you like.

I don't think it's a HUB power issue as it does the same, HUB or not. Just seems to be a bit of a dumb oversight in the software, no reason why it can't be sorted in an update. Resting your hand on the stick causes a pull to the right. Would be nice to get some clarification on how the self-centring works.

As it's only a slight offset, any flight sim of worth can trim it out so it shouldn't be a big deal in use. But still. I wonder if they are sensitive to local variations in magnetic fields.

Saitek wouldn't return my emails.

Thanks for the link CBR9, its really interesting thread for me.
People in there are having exactly same issue as mine.
As you mentioned, I need to test it on another M/B and PSU.

When the phenomenon occurred while flying, it ignores my input until it regains LED power, if I was making a hard left pressure when the power is back, it reset a new center position, I mean, I need to make a hard right pressure to maintain straight flight after that.

Hi Flexman.
Do you have a same disconnect/connect issue that Im suffering from?
Its really nice to hear that your new sim in development are going to have a software calibration.
And also I hope you to get a response from "Saitek" or "Madcatz"

http://kotaku.com/322571/saitek-devoured-by-mad-catz