I meant an entirely new product line, whereas newer HOTAS Cougars are still Cougars. (Remember when they even forgot to grease the gimbals on a later batch and took a while to get around to fixing it?) The Warthog is slated to dodge that issue by using Hall effect sensors EVERYWHERE. Haven't tried the T.16000-M, but those who have only have good things to say. That would probably give us a glimpse of what to expect from the stick half of the Warthog.

And to add to all of this, I think the original Force-Controlled Cougar mod with its TrackPoint-ish sensor seems to be slightly prone to jitter. Just enough to make it undesirable for IL-2 Sturmovik use, but I bought it for Falcon 4.0 anyway, just because it's the closest I'll probably ever get to an actual F-16 without enlisting and it doesn't seem to bother that sim much.

That is why I dropped US$333 shipped on this particular Cougar on Frugal's about four years ago-it was used, but was already modified. If we could get much better quality than that out of the Warthog at $400, it'll definitely be a better option than spending that much or more on a U2-NXT + HS kit, FSSB, or FCC-2 by itself, on top of the Cougar to put it in.

(And speaking of Cougar mods, why hasn't anyone modded the microstick yet? That definitely needs to be replaced with something more TrackPoint-style and much more reliable, or at least as close to it as can be done while still retaining the push-down functionality. I sure hope the Warthog improves upon that...)

I was just getting the point across that the cougar..after all these years should be fixed. They should have put HS in it, buttons shouldn't have been broken and misaligned. Why did it take so many years to fix a few of the small problems. I hope the WH delivers and is a very good stick. Depending on the price, I'll get one also.

That I understand and agree with, though it also brings up the whole new question of "Which Cougars have the better parts installed already?" (I suppose it could go by serial number.) The bad remarks on the first ones would probably clash with the reviews from later models if that were the case.

Admitted, most of the problems shouldn't have been problems to begin with, even if things like the speedbrake and dogfight switch housings are easy to fix with a nail file. (And what about the little things like the rotaries having far more physical travel than what corresponds to the DirectInput axis range, and furthermore, WHY is the DI axis center offset from the physical detent center?)

Then again, I vaguely remember reading something on Frugal's about how the Cougar might have been cheapened compared to its HOTAS 2000 prototype incarnation, just to get the price down. Something that they don't appear to be doing with the Warthog, we hope.

Despite all its...quirks, I just can't part with my Cougar for the time being. I sincerely hope that the Warthog will be the one to displace it. (But for that to happen, TM/Guillemot needs to release some T.A.R.G.E.T.-compatible rudder pedals that don't involve slaving the ones we already have to a Cougar. I still play my fair share of first-DirectInput-ID-only old games.)

My T-shirt arrived today Thanks Doug and SimHQ! Finally I have a propper geek outfit

Grrrr. I don't have mine yet, and I'm on the same continent!

Customs is probably making sure it's cool to have one of those hot HOTAS t's.

http://www.fnac.be/fr/Catalog/Detail.asp...roduct=10532593

This is the third time Warthog has been on sale..those two previous times were short-lived.

2-4 weeks seems quite optimistic, however they did say availability in September during E3.

Same here! Thanks for the shirt guys

Mine came today many thanks.

Another pre-order option, this time in the US:

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop...er_id=!ORDERID!

Thats great to see and at least we now know its going to be about $400 USD for the order.

Thanks for the link Doomer.

Anyone else know of another place that has it on pre-order here in the US? I am having trouble getting that link Doomer posted to work when I try to place a pre-order.

Thanks again Doomer. Now how the heck are you locating these places and why isn't the others like GoGamer and Amazon listing it as a pre-order. Just crazy I tell ya.

"THRUSTMASTER HOTAS WARTHOG FLIGHT STICK" to Google does the trick.

That search string now reveals few more sites that weren't there yesterday.

Best yet: 385USD

http://www.provantage.com/guillemot-2960720~AGUIL01L.htm

Been leaving off the Flight Stick part and all I get are the sites from forums only. Thanks for the heads up.

In Germany the Warthog is actual listed from about 230 Euro.

Edit: Oh no only pricing errors

Can you give me the link to the german store please? Can't wait to see how this puppy really performs, after it has been released. I wonder if TM is aiming for the same release date all over the world, or if Europe and Asia have to wait till the first batch has been shipped to the US.

http://computer.hitmeister.de/maeuse/joy...nel_name=491657

But thats a pricing error. I have just ordered one of them, but the have told me, that i have ordered a driving wheel