#3064312 - 07/31/10 06:28 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Ark]
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 951
NamelessPFG
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 951
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I pay $400 every year or 2 for a new GPU. My Cougar is what, 10 years old now?
In the grand scheme of things, it will be a bargain. IMO, out of the box, the Cougar is somewhat of a POS. lol My CH stick and throttle have never had an issue pots, needed modding, or required fixing of switches....and they were cheaper and a LOT more precise. For looks, the Cougar all the way. Functionality, build quality, and price wise, my CH setup is a lot better than my Cougar (and I didn't even buy one of the early Cougars). I won't lie and say that my Cougar hasn't had its quirks. The microstick is acting up a bit, the metal used is cheap zamac/zamak, the speedbrake and dogfight switch housings weren't aligned, and the paint is really rubbing off of the stick now, such that I'd really like to see it repainted. But at one point, I had a CH Fighterstick, Pro Pedals, and DT225, all USB and thus Control Manager-compliant. The Pro Pedals developed a response issue with one of the toebrakes that would have its output spike a bit when moving the main rudder axis, but nothing too serious. They were all generally quite precise and the most programmable controllers on the market thanks to the Control Manager. Nevertheless, I sold them. Why? Poor ergonomics (except for the DT225; that was just sold because it was lacking a scroll wheel, I needed money, and I didn't really play that much Marble Madness). The Pro Pedals were too closely spaced, and the Fighterstick dug into my palm in a way that the F-22 Pro or Cougar stick never did. And while I never owned one, I did also get to use the Flight Sim Yoke with three levers for throttle/prop pitch/mixture, and one of those levers had snapped off on one of them. Aside from that, it also dug into my palms kind of like the Fighterstick did. For something that could be used for hours at a time, I expect it to be comfortable, and that's what CH needs to work on. The HOTAS Warthog is looking to bring the best of both worlds, if Guillemot/TM has really learned from their mistakes with the Cougar. TM ergonomics and refusal to omit things like the trigger's second stage and paddle switch, and CH durability and programmability (if T.A.R.G.E.T. delivers). I can't wait to get my hands on it and evaluate it for myself.
Last edited by NamelessPFG; 08/06/10 03:36 AM.
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#3064343 - 07/31/10 07:34 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Richardg]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,508
Teej
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,508
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They're high on dope. The most I would even consider paying would be $299.
Your money, your choice. The Cougar was priced over $300 upon release and for years afterwards. That was 10 years ago. Simply adjusting for inflation, if it was released today it would be well over $400. The Warthog is loaded with Hall sensors and pretty serious switch hardware. In the 5-6 years I've flown my Cougar (which works as well now as it ever did) I've gone through several times its price in motherboards, processors, memory, GPU and monitors.
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#3064350 - 07/31/10 07:42 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: zcaa0g]
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,508
Teej
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,508
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Shoulder width is about right assuming that is the case with these pedals. No reason to be "spread eagle" like the Simpeds. Shoulder width is fine with a side stick or desktop stick setup. Not so great when trying to set up a rigid center-mount system that you have to wrap your legs around.
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#3064351 - 07/31/10 07:43 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: VTB_Lawndart]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
HitchHikingFlatlander
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
California
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Only time will tell if the Warthog will live up to the hype/price tag. When this thing hits the street we'll know the real truth! If you want to get an idea before it hits the streets, check out Ray's preview. The consensus among those of us who have tested it is very similar... I generally agree with the reviews but when you use that as reason then someone attacks the review as fanboyism. Because TM only let fanboys test out there stuff ............
Last edited by HitchHikingFlatlander; 07/31/10 07:43 PM.
I've got a bad feeling about this.....
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#3064393 - 07/31/10 09:39 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 79
VTB_Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbirds
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Virtual Thunderbirds
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 79
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Only time will tell if the Warthog will live up to the hype/price tag. When this thing hits the street we'll know the real truth! If you want to get an idea before it hits the streets, check out Ray's preview. The consensus among those of us who have tested it is very similar... I generally agree with the reviews but when you use that as reason then someone attacks the review as fanboyism. Because TM only let fanboys test out there stuff ............ Fanboys... O'boy, that'd be nice if true. I'm simply sharing information in case anyone is interested. We (the Virtual Thunderbirds) base our credibility and precision flying on us choosing to work with TM, and I have no problem telling others that's why - not the other way around. We wouldn't be continuing our partnership with TM if we weren't ready to put our NXT/FSSB/FCC modded Cougars in the closets to collect dust based on our experience thus far with the HOTAS Warthog.
Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by ThrustmasterThermaltake V9 BlacX Case | Corsair HX 850W PSU | EVGA X58 FTW3 | 24 GB G.SKILL DDR3 1600 | Intel i7-950 @ 4GHz | Corsair H50 Cooler | EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW | Oculus Rift | X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty | Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2 x 1TB 7200RPM | TM HOTAS Warthog | TM MFD Cougar Pack | 40" LG 1080p LED |
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#3064394 - 07/31/10 09:40 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: UnderTheRadar]
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,111
Ark
Cat Herder
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Cat Herder
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,111
Fresno, CA.
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IMO, out of the box, the Cougar is somewhat of a POS. lol
My CH stick and throttle have never had an issue pots, needed modding, or required fixing of switches....and they were cheaper and a LOT more precise.
For looks, the Cougar all the way. Functionality, build quality, and price wise, my CH setup is a lot better than my Cougar (and I didn't even buy one of the early Cougars).
Your opinion and my experience are two different things. I am still using my original Cougar that I have had since they were released on the market. No mods, no problems. Rock solid dependable. I came from F-16 FLCS/TQS. I used the Bob Church Mod Chips on that set. Used them for years. And before that it was the FCS and WCS... I have plastic stuff I use for games but, for my sims, there is no going back. TM all the way! I totally jinxed myself and my sticks are gonna die tonight Fair enough. I'm not saying I have ever had an issue with my Cougar (outside of the stick movement feeling being just too heavy for me and some slack developing in the center), I am referring to TM Cougar reliability in general. However, despite the fact that my Cougar is working just fine (overall), my CH setup is still superior with regards to precision and price. It may not be for everybody due to the light springs and plastic construction, but it just flat out works and it is spot-on with regards to precision. It is actually sort of irritating since I can't really justify a new stick util this one breaks. LOL
Ark
Windows 7 x64 Asus P6T Deluxe mobo Core i7 920 @ 4.0 6GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 Evga GTX 680 Classified SB X-FI Fatality 640GB WD "Black" 1GB WD "Black" LG 39" LCD / Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" LCD / Acer H233H 23" LCD
RIP Positive G
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#3064933 - 08/01/10 08:10 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Ark]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
HitchHikingFlatlander
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
California
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Lawn Dart I'm on your side lol! I tend to mostly trust the impressions from community members. I was just pointing out the obvious pit falls. I think SimHQ and it's members/contributors in general always report things honestly and try to keep us informed. But some troll is always going to find a reason to say you guys are just part of TMs clever marketing plan.......... and that the X52, G940, cougar and etc..... all had fanboys. I for one am glad that we have community members that actually have one of these sticks and will honestly report on their impressions. It's a discussion I know but most people are complaining that the cougar had problems or that the HOTAS is more than they're willing to pay (ie: too expensive). Personally I find that a little unfair, given the pricing isn't final and that the HOTAS hasn't been released to compare quality to the Cougar or any other controller for that matter.
I've got a bad feeling about this.....
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#3064995 - 08/01/10 09:21 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 811
Squid_DK
Jack of all trades
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Jack of all trades
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 811
Copenhagen, Denmark
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Ark, thats kinda funny I have preordered the TM Warthog, even though my CH setup (Which has never given me any grief) is still in perfect working order, fortunately my wife has given me the ok to upgrade as long as I will buy her a copy of DCS A-10C (a no brainer here since we have had some fun with BS on LAN here.
Staffan
I've been behind before and still managed to loose
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#3064996 - 08/01/10 09:26 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Squid_DK]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
HitchHikingFlatlander
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
California
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Squid YOU ARE a lucky man. I guess that's how the Danish roll! Although I don't have room for two simpits nor do I want to share my projection display!
I've got a bad feeling about this.....
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#3065006 - 08/01/10 09:38 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: HitchHikingFlatlander]
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,834
Corsair8X
Dagestan, Dover, DMZ
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Dagestan, Dover, DMZ
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,834
Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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It's a discussion I know but most people are complaining that the cougar had problems or that the HOTAS is more than they're willing to pay (ie: too expensive). Personally I find that a little unfair, given the pricing isn't final and that the HOTAS hasn't been released to compare quality to the Cougar or any other controller for that matter. I don't have a problem with the pricing, but I am going to be wary of the Warthog based on my experience with the Cougar. I personally feel that I got burned with that purchase and the money I spent is a little much for the bookends that I use them as now. However, does that mean I write this new offering completely? Obviously that would be foolish. Am I going to be an early adopter? Not on your life. I'll see what reports are after the production units come out and people have used them for a bit. I don't doubt the people that have used them. But I don't think these are production units. After my Cougar, TM will be a company that I approach with caution now. I hope they are good and sound. I would like very much to be able to use them. I just want no surprises this time around.
Corsair8X
virtually making history 30mm at a time
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#3065090 - 08/01/10 11:31 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Squid_DK]
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,111
Ark
Cat Herder
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Cat Herder
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,111
Fresno, CA.
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Ark, thats kinda funny I have preordered the TM Warthog, even though my CH setup (Which has never given me any grief) is still in perfect working order, fortunately my wife has given me the ok to upgrade as long as I will buy her a copy of DCS A-10C (a no brainer here since we have had some fun with BS on LAN here.
Staffan I just bought a GTX 480 so justifying another $400+ purchase would be a toughy. My wife is more into other non-sim games so she doesn't get the whole joystick "thing". haha Havign said that, she told me to just buy it, even after I told her it was going to be $500+ (according to that link earlier). I just don't see the need for it right now when all of my other equipment still works just fine.
Ark
Windows 7 x64 Asus P6T Deluxe mobo Core i7 920 @ 4.0 6GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 Evga GTX 680 Classified SB X-FI Fatality 640GB WD "Black" 1GB WD "Black" LG 39" LCD / Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" LCD / Acer H233H 23" LCD
RIP Positive G
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#3065291 - 08/02/10 05:45 AM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Corsair8X]
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 79
VTB_Lawndart
Virtual Thunderbirds
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Virtual Thunderbirds
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 79
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I don't have a problem with the pricing, but I am going to be wary of the Warthog based on my experience with the Cougar. I personally feel that I got burned with that purchase and the money I spent is a little much for the bookends that I use them as now.
However, does that mean I write this new offering completely? Obviously that would be foolish. Am I going to be an early adopter? Not on your life. I'll see what reports are after the production units come out and people have used them for a bit. I don't doubt the people that have used them. But I don't think these are production units. After my Cougar, TM will be a company that I approach with caution now.
I hope they are good and sound. I would like very much to be able to use them. I just want no surprises this time around. That's the same approach I'd take too if I was in the same shoes! We've been vary about what to expect since most of us have been using FFSB/hall sensor modded Cougars, but our expectations have been exceeded in every way possible with the HW thus far. It's not fair (to the HW) to be compared to the Cougar based on history, but by all means I understand why everyone makes that comparison (as they should). All I'm saying is, this is a completely different animal and one that I'd be very surprised if it doesn't live up to its hype!
Virtual Thunderbirds, LLC | Sponsored by ThrustmasterThermaltake V9 BlacX Case | Corsair HX 850W PSU | EVGA X58 FTW3 | 24 GB G.SKILL DDR3 1600 | Intel i7-950 @ 4GHz | Corsair H50 Cooler | EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW | Oculus Rift | X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty | Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB | WD Caviar Black 2 x 1TB 7200RPM | TM HOTAS Warthog | TM MFD Cougar Pack | 40" LG 1080p LED |
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#3065424 - 08/02/10 01:06 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Doomer]
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,124
Lancelot
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,124
Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Well, I hope the negative reaction to the price doesen't make Guillemot to cut corners in the manufacturing process in order to bring the cost down... +1. Give it time, and even if its pricey, if that hardware is as good as all previews are claiming, with time lot of people that find it pricey will buy it if they are interested.
Si hay que huir, YO PRIMERO!!!
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#3065573 - 08/02/10 04:55 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: NamelessPFG]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,160
Cali
Military Advisor - USAF
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Military Advisor - USAF
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,160
Davis-Monthan AFB, Az
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I pay $400 every year or 2 for a new GPU. My Cougar is what, 10 years old now?
In the grand scheme of things, it will be a bargain. IMO, out of the box, the Cougar is somewhat of a POS. lol My CH stick and throttle have never had an issue pots, needed modding, or required fixing of switches....and they were cheaper and a LOT more precise. For looks, the Cougar all the way. Functionality, build quality, and price wise, my CH setup is a lot better than my Cougar (and I didn't even buy one of the early Cougars). I won't lie and say that my Cougar hasn't had its quirks. The microswitch is acting up a bit, the metal used is cheap zamac/zamak, the speedbrake and dogfight switch housings weren't aligned, and the paint is really rubbing off of the stick now, such that I'd really like to see it repainted. But at one point, I had a CH Fighterstick, Pro Pedals, and DT225, all USB and thus Control Manager-compliant. The Pro Pedals developed a response issue with one of the toebrakes that would have its output spike a bit when moving the main rudder axis, but nothing too serious. They were all generally quite precise and the most programmable controllers on the market thanks to the Control Manager. Nevertheless, I sold them. Why? Poor ergonomics (except for the DT225; that was just sold because it was lacking a scroll wheel, I needed money, and I didn't really play that much Marble Madness). The Pro Pedals were too closely spaced, and the Fighterstick dug into my palm in a way that the F-22 Pro or Cougar stick never did. And while I never owned one, I did also get to use the Flight Sim Yoke with three levers for throttle/prop pitch/mixture, and one of those levers had snapped off on one of them. Aside from that, it also dug into my palms kind of like the Fighterstick did. For something that could be used for hours at a time, I expect it to be comfortable, and that's what CH needs to work on. The HOTAS Warthog is looking to bring the best of both worlds, if Guillemot/TM has really learned from their mistakes with the Cougar. TM ergonomics and refusal to omit things like the trigger's second stage and paddle switch, and CH durability and programmability (if T.A.R.G.E.T. delivers). I can't wait to get my hands on it and evaluate it for myself. If they learned, then why is the pots on the Cougar still crap? 10 years and you still need to mod it, but at least they fixed the DG switch and misalignment issue. I have always liked the cougar, but at the time couldn't see paying over $200+ and having to spend another $200+ to fix it. I very hope the WH is as good as the tester have said it is.
i5-2500k @ 3.3, Asus P8Z77-V LE mobo Windows 7 64-bit, 8GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 670 FTW 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, Warthog, uber modded Cougar, TM Cougar MFD's, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard
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#3065705 - 08/02/10 08:01 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Cali]
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,065
aRareKindOfMonster
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,065
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I certainly am interested, but I also am a little skeptical. And as such, like some, I will not be an early adopter. I wonder what kind of warranty covers the Warthog. If it's the regular 1 year warranty, then I am twice as skeptical.
New, innovative gear should by no means be cheap, but I wonder if people will get their money's worth.
If it weren't for the ingenuity of the community, the (modded) Cougar would never have the reputation of reliability it has. The success of the Cougar rests largely on the shoulders of the developers of the different mods, and not on TM/Guillemot. In this day and age companies try to increase their profit margins, but at what cost? At the consumers' expense? The priors with the Cougar doesn't raise confidence. And if there is something I would loathe, then it would be to spend $500 on a set of controllers and then keep paying $200, $100, $50 to improve a design flaw.
Paint chipping off the stick, buttons malfunctioning, pieces breaking in a product of this caliber should be inadmissible. Those are reasons why I prefer to err on the side of caution and wait, as well.
But as I previously said, I'd love to peek into the insides of the WH.
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#3067644 - 08/05/10 06:02 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: aRareKindOfMonster]
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4
Cap_Loz
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4
Cheshire UK
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I can't help but but in on the side of the Cougar. I am also one that has had my Cougar from launch and have had absolutely Zero problems with it. No paint flaking, button breaking pots spiking at all. Maybe I was just lucky but on that experience I will buy the Warthog in a flash, and relegate my Cougar to being a source for my RCS (which did spike like crazy until I bought the CubPilot Hall mod) which in terms of size and feel are unbeatable. Just wish I could mod them for toe brakes.
An old pilot is one who can remember when flying was dangerous and sex was safe.
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#3067659 - 08/05/10 06:15 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: aRareKindOfMonster]
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Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 529
Nutty
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 529
Bristol, England
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The success of the Cougar rests largely on the shoulders of the developers of the different mods, and not on TM/Guillemot. Not at all. I'd put the number of modded Cougars at around 3% of Cougars out there. Nutty
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#3067782 - 08/05/10 09:20 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Nutty]
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 347
Villicus
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 347
Lafayette, LA.
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Years ago I wanted to get a Cougar, but just couldn't bring myself to spend that much money on something that generated so many complaints. I'm taking a leap of faith and will be buying the Warthog when it comes out hoping that it will be better made and supported than the Cougar was.
ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Asus Matrix HD7970 Platinum CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
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#3067787 - 08/05/10 09:30 PM
Re: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Discussion Thread
[Re: Nutty]
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,298
Reschke
Plankowner
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Plankowner
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,298
Vestavia, AL
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I would say the amount of modded Cougars might be one or two points higher MAYBE but I also had one from launch and recently just sold it to a guy. I had zero problems with the stick; the throttle flash got me with the dead pot in it but other than that not a single major issue.
As for the Warthog...that is what I sold my Cougar and modded RCS pedals for...the start up cash.
Star Citizen Referal Code STAR-MP6J-VFH7
i7-13700K @ 3.40GHz 32GB RAM GeForce 3060RTX MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk lots of SSD's and a good old fashioned 1TB HDD Samsung G9 Odyssey 49" TrackIR 5 with Track Clip Pro Windows 11 64bit Warthog #1397...compliments of SimHQ
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