#3054118 - 07/17/10 04:24 AM
Canada buys the F-35
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Joined: Apr 2000
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Farcaster
Member
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Member
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Posts: 1,426
Toronto, Canada
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Conservatives announce $9-billion purchaseNo competition, no White Paper, no bids. We did all that back in 2001 when the Libs were in power, and invested $168-million in development. We've recouped more than twice that in contracts so far, and now the Liberals are screaming that there should be a new competition. "Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said a Liberal government would put the sole-sourced contract on hold and call on the House of Commons defence committee to review the governments secret, unaccountable decisionto buy the fleet." Later, he said if he becomes Prime Minister, he'd cancel the contract! That's not going over very well with Canadians who recall what former Liberal PM Chretien did back in the mid-90's. The dumbass appears to have been unaware that back then, Liberal PM Chretien did just that for the replacement of our 1950's Sea King helicopters, at a cost of $500-million, after the Conservatives had ordered 50 EH-101's. Pilots died as those old helos fell out of the sky on a regular basis and couldn't operate off our ships any longer. Anyway, replacing 60 CF-18s one for one with the F-35 is really the only real option. Our Hornets will be close to 40 years old when the Lightning IIs start to arrive in 2016. This year, Boeing completed the 2nd phase of the CF-18 modernization program for our Hornets, adding the Link 16 system, a helmet-mounted sight, new cockpit displays and a new flare-dispensing electronic warfare system. The CF-18s are due to be retired in 2020. Boeing says we've gotten more mileage out of our F-18A/Bs than anyone in the world, but they're at their limit for upgrades. We've had the Russians flying Bears in our Arctic airspace a lot lately, and I can't wait to see our air-force meet them at the border in these!
Last edited by Farcaster; 07/17/10 04:28 AM.
"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron. Or else He's the dumbest designer that ever lived." - Spider Robinson, Mindkiller
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#3054119 - 07/17/10 04:33 AM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: Farcaster]
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Joined: Jul 2003
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PFunk
SimHQ Redneck
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SimHQ Redneck
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N. Central Texas
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Well, as much as I hate no-bid contracts, I don't know that anyone's putting out anything that Canada might be interested in.
The Eurofighter's too expensive even for us Americans and I can't imagine the Sukhoi Su-30 in CAF livery. I suppose you could bootstrap those Hornets for a another decade or so.
pfunk
"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke www.sixmanfootball.com
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#3054147 - 07/17/10 06:51 AM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: RMachucaA]
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Squid_DK
Jack of all trades
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Jack of all trades
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Copenhagen, Denmark
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I think the F-35 is a good choice for Canada.
Meanwhile the danish parliament decided a while ago to postpone the decision to find a replacement for our F-16 AM MLU's two mere years, at least two parties in parliament are against even getting new aircraft on the grounds that "no enemy exist that can threaten danish airspace...." and we have seen sov... Oops russian snoop through danish airspace over Bornholm.
Staffan
I've been behind before and still managed to loose
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#3054225 - 07/17/10 01:22 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: Squid_DK]
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,085
fatty
Senior Member
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Brussels, Belgium
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Yes, as the 1993 experience showed, procurement projects pushed to the back burner tend to stay there. Hence why the air force is still flying 50 year old Sea Kings.
Wish I could say I was as pleased about the decision to resurrect the Joint Support Ship project, but what can you do.
"...for who are so free as the sons of the waves?"
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#3054330 - 07/17/10 04:13 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: PFunk]
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Corsair8X
Dagestan, Dover, DMZ
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Dagestan, Dover, DMZ
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Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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I suppose you could bootstrap those Hornets for a another decade or so. The way the project is going, we might have to, to be honest. I wasn't aware of how expensive the Typhoon is. Does anyone know the costs vs. a F-35A?
Corsair8X
virtually making history 30mm at a time
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#3054333 - 07/17/10 04:15 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: Corsair8X]
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ForSquirrels
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According to wikipedia its 63M Euros for a Typhoon and $191.1M USD for an F-35. Not sure what the conversion is but the F-35 sounds more expensive.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it." --Mark Twain
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
XBL: fmdckr81
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#3054337 - 07/17/10 04:19 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: ForSquirrels]
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Joined: Jun 2001
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ForSquirrels
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Just read a little more into that wiki article. It says the final flyaway cost for an F-35 is expected to be $89M USD which I am pretty sure would be cheaper.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it." --Mark Twain
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
XBL: fmdckr81
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#3054349 - 07/17/10 04:27 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: ForSquirrels]
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Joined: May 2010
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JAMF
Frugalite & P-38 fan
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Frugalite & P-38 fan
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The Netherlands
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According to wikipedia its 63M Euros for a Typhoon and $191.1M USD for an F-35. Not sure what the conversion is but the F-35 sounds more expensive. 63M comes to 81.5M US$ Just read a little more into that wiki article. It says the final flyaway cost for an F-35 is expected to be $89M USD which I am pretty sure would be cheaper. Projected prices always end up higher, so I'd be surprised if that "$89M US" would be the eventual price.
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#3054364 - 07/17/10 04:43 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: JAMF]
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 630
Ltfransky
Sith Lord
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Sith Lord
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Peterborough, ON, Canada
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Michael Ignatieff is a jackass. He has no idea how to run the country, he's just squawking to hear his own voice. Voting in Canada has become very difficult, since I don't trust the Conservatives, the Liberals are effectively leaderless, and the NDP is just scary.
It's not surprising that we're getting the JSF. We've dumped money into the program from the beginning. Too bad is looks like the North end of a Southbound camel. The CF-188 is a great looking plane.
Please Heatware Me!Ours is not to reason why. Ours is to do or die. Tennyson I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings.. Gillespie Magee, RCAF
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#3054441 - 07/17/10 06:13 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: No105_Archie]
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,779
EAF331 MadDog
XBL: LanceHawkins
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XBL: LanceHawkins
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Oslo, Norway
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The fighter competition here was also totally insane. The whole show was totally tailored for the JSF.
Eurofighter just went "WTF? At least *try* to look like a fair competition. We're out of here.".
And when Saab submitted their bid, with operation and maintenance numbers validated by the swedish goverment as being correct (seeing as they kind of operate the plane), the norwegian defense department just went and said "Oh those figures are wrong, those costs will be three times as high since we're asking for a slightly modified version" and awarded it to JSF (who doesn't even have a solid price yet).
Pure #%&*$#.
Last edited by EAF331 MadDog; 07/17/10 06:14 PM.
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#3054446 - 07/17/10 06:19 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: JAMF]
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Cat
Egyptian Mau
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Egyptian Mau
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Somewhere....over the Rainbow
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I'd love to see Su-30MKIs in haze grey and wearing maple leaves. That'd send a much-needed message to Western defense contractors about keeping costs down.
Frankly, though, I'm surprised the Canadians didn't think "Gripen." Saab's solution would seem to me to be exactly what Canada needs-small, fast, versatile, not too expensive, and state of the art. But I'd say that Boeing made the F-35 too sweet to ignore. Probably made some stopgap deal regarding the current Cf-18 fleet.
For that matter, you'd think that Super Hornets would have been a good solution for the Canadians, too. They're already familiar with the basic airframe.
Miao, Cat
Miao, Cat
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#3054475 - 07/17/10 06:53 PM
Re: Canada buys the F-35
[Re: Razorback]
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Posts: 3,085
fatty
Senior Member
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Senior Member
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Brussels, Belgium
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Canadian fixed-wing aircraft in Afghanistan are used for strategic/tactical airlift only.
"...for who are so free as the sons of the waves?"
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