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#3006322 - 05/04/10 05:54 PM Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel  
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MJMORROW Offline
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I am very weak on dealing with the DR1, when using my beloved Camel. Any Camel experts have tips on taking out that tri- wing devil?


Instead of complaining about SPAD 7s, Central pilots should capture and fly them too. I suggest putting an apple in the middle of your Aerodrome field and just wait. Eventually a SPAD 7 will come by to get the apple, cause SPADS can't resist apples. This is how the Entente gets a hold of SPAD 7s, m-kay?
-MJ Morrow
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#3006346 - 05/04/10 06:18 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: MJMORROW]  
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Go the other direction.


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#3006358 - 05/04/10 06:28 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Cameljockey]  
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Against AI or human opponent online?

Against AI, turn right so you have a minimum turn radius (keeping the DR1 in front of you always help). The AI is eventually going to do a "hang on its tail hammerhead." That's when you nail the sucker.


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#3006401 - 05/04/10 07:48 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: 2GvSAP_Mohawk]  
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MJMORROW Offline
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Originally Posted By: 2GvSAP_Mohawk
Against AI or human opponent online?

Against AI, turn right so you have a minimum turn radius (keeping the DR1 in front of you always help). The AI is eventually going to do a "hang on its tail hammerhead." That's when you nail the sucker.


TY for the advice, but how about against human opponents? The Camel should out perform the DR 1 in something? lol I am not a wiz, but I am sure that there are Camel ninjas out there with Jet Lee wire fu moves I can use! lol

Last edited by MJMORROW; 05/04/10 07:48 PM.

Instead of complaining about SPAD 7s, Central pilots should capture and fly them too. I suggest putting an apple in the middle of your Aerodrome field and just wait. Eventually a SPAD 7 will come by to get the apple, cause SPADS can't resist apples. This is how the Entente gets a hold of SPAD 7s, m-kay?
-MJ Morrow
#3006450 - 05/04/10 08:59 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: MJMORROW]  
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Well im not a camel jocky, but from the DR1 pilots perspective, verticle loops can be awkward to deal with. The camel can and does outurn the DR1 if flown properly. Try to force the DR1 to stall, it takes ages to recover from and he will be a sitting duck whilst he does.

Ultimately though if your learning the camel you will struggle against a decent DR1 opponent. The DR1 IMHO is an easier plane to fly, but keep on practicing and your soon be the nemisis of all DR1s

Last edited by Squid_Von_Torgar; 05/04/10 09:00 PM.
#3006452 - 05/04/10 09:04 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Squid_Von_Torgar]  
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Dart Offline
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Bring two friends in their Camels with you.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

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#3006478 - 05/04/10 09:59 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Dart]  
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Squid_Von_Torgar Offline
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Quote:
Bring two friends in their Camels with you.


Actually this isnt as much as a problem as you might think. The fast turning nature of the fight actually means that the camels tend to get in each others way.

#3006611 - 05/05/10 03:11 AM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Squid_Von_Torgar]  
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@Dart,
I can only take on a DR1 with other team members. I am just not skilled enough to go it alone.

@Squid,
The Camel can outturn the DR1? Do you mean using out of plane yo yo style moves or just pull to the right and swing around turn. I hope that sentence makes sense! lol


Instead of complaining about SPAD 7s, Central pilots should capture and fly them too. I suggest putting an apple in the middle of your Aerodrome field and just wait. Eventually a SPAD 7 will come by to get the apple, cause SPADS can't resist apples. This is how the Entente gets a hold of SPAD 7s, m-kay?
-MJ Morrow
#3006630 - 05/05/10 04:18 AM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: MJMORROW]  
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Dart Offline
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I dunno, Squid, I was making good money in a Nieuport 17 with the turny-turn types as part of a team. I'd stay high, the DR1 would climb up, hang in the stall, I'd pop at him, and he'd dive down to do some turning or attempt yet another loop.

The DR1 guys like to do loops as much as turns. And they love to make tight turns.

In short order they wind up losing too much energy to perform a loop and start in on hammerheads or Immelmans, just hanging in the air at the top.

If two or three guys don't conga line, the DR1 is in serious trouble. Heck, three on two and the DR1 is in trouble, owing to its low speed. Just keep trading one target for the other.

Basically, don't play the DR1's turning game. The Camel is plenty fast enough for drag-and-bag or slashing attacks.

Remember, it wasn't that the DR1 was a bad turner versus other scouts that got it taken off the front lines, it was its low relative speed.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#3006676 - 05/05/10 07:08 AM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Dart]  
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If you are confident in your gunnery and cannot out manoeuvre the dr1 pilot and force him into making a mistake, use speed to separate(dive if you have some altitude you will pick up speed much faster than him), dr1 pilots get into the habit of turning fights and expect to do so when they engage, separating is easy most of the time. Then manoeuvre for head on, or slashing attacks and keep repeating; it's a bit of a crap shoot, but it removes any advantage the dr1 pilot has, and places you both on a level playing field.

To go off on a bit of a tangent I suspect language differences have led to the devs underestimating the performance of both the sopwith planes performance. All historical anecdotes suggest the planes were far more accomplished once pilots became used to their idiosyncrasies, than the sim would suggest. There is still a flying camel, but have had little success in tracking down contact information in the hopes of getting some insight or even a comparison between the sim and the real thing.

Last edited by BOLT; 05/05/10 07:25 AM.

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Regards BOLT.
#3006721 - 05/05/10 11:22 AM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: BOLT]  
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Quote:
Try to force the DR1 to stall, it takes ages to recover from.
..... in reality, the (full size) Dr.1 recovers very quickly.


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#3006739 - 05/05/10 12:12 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: womenfly2]  
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Dart, dont get me wrong, being out numbered is never nice, but often ive been in a close dogfight and a "Friendly" has dove in and got inbetween me and my target forcing me to break off. Proper team work where your wingman stays high to cover you is very hard to defend against.

Womenfly2, its weird you can get the DR1 to stall and it whips around which if your quick enough can be caught with the rudder and can actually be quite a useful manauver. The slow one to recover from is in a nose high attitude. It seems that all controls lose authority and takes quite a while to regain.

How does that compare with the Full size DR1 (I assume you mean the replica and does its engine make a difference)?

#3006743 - 05/05/10 12:31 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Squid_Von_Torgar]  
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SVT,

I have posted before on the Dr.1 FM's seem the Dr.1 in the sim does need some tweaking but I do not think the dev's will go back and do to much of that. I have stated this when I frist Beta test her.

The issue is there is so much dynamics going on in a real plane that no way can our computers simulate that, so its the best it can be for now, compromise.

In the Dr.1 I flew, she did have a Radial, but in talking with Fred Murrin and other Dr.1 pilots with rotaries in their planes, the stall is equal to a J-3 Cub flown correctly. One cannot imagine the high lift the 3 wings have at low airspeed, the sim does not do it justice.

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#3006749 - 05/05/10 12:40 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: womenfly2]  
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Fair enough WF2, i guess its always going to be a compromise. I was just interested if we were seeing the same thing, but its interesting that even the rotary DR1 have such tame stall characteristics. Perhaps some of the "DR1's too easy to fly" Mob would be interested.

Anyway, still waiting for camel jockeys to pipe up about their killer moves wink

#3006801 - 05/05/10 02:54 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Squid_Von_Torgar]  
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A left climbing turn (not to be mistaken with a spiral climb) with a quasi split S keeping some of that left aileron and left rudder can usually give you a quick, high-deflection opportunity, but even at it's best, the Dr.1 is a tough opponent in a Camel...as it should be.
A well-flown Camel is a Central powers party-wrecker too.


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#3006917 - 05/05/10 06:48 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Thunderbolt56]  
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Both the Camel and Dr I seem to have some odd properties in RoF. The spin recovery (or not) of RoF's Camel is obviously rather different from the real aircraft. In real life, both aircraft were judged to be uncomfortably slow and with poor performance at altitude. In RoF they both seem rather quick and they hold on to that speed rather higher up than one might imagine.

Cheers,

RD


Beyond gliding distance
#3006919 - 05/05/10 06:53 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: BOLT]  
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My only kill on-line against a Tripe, was, strangely enough, in SPAD 13. Just kept seperating and coming back. At one point we came at each other, and he broke off to the right. I let 'im have it!
Got him right in the egine and he went down flaming.
"Nice shooting, Pooch!"
I was more surprised than he was.


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#3006948 - 05/05/10 07:17 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Pooch]  
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Good stuff all around. I suck in this plane, like most planes, but want to learn how to fly well in this one and appreciate the info people are sharing. S!


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#3006950 - 05/05/10 07:20 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: Pooch]  
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"Dogfighting is a waste of time"

-Erich Hartmann Smile2

But yeah, in ROF world they are the norm. The Camel is superior in rolling scissors manoeuvres should you find yourself in that situation. Dart is right, the DR1's achilles heel is its low airspeed. At co-alt situations before merge use vertical plane manoeuvres, do not go for a level turn. A climbing combat turn works well. Get flight path separation, always important then you can pull a lead turn.

There are always so many variables and no one situation is the same. Hence no 'advice' will always be the best. Dogma has as its inherent weakness predictability. Fly like a nutter, they wont see it coming, and it seems to work OK for me. hahaha These discussions while interesting sometimes make me laugh. You get people on Ubi-Zoo writing 25 page dissertations on ACM and the importance of P-factor and inertia and sustained turn rate to the power of blah blah blah sleepy . You're thinking too much Padwan, its not really that complicated. Trust in your feelings Luke lightsabers

How much time do you get to think in a typical close in dogfight? Exactly. If he's better than you, you'll probably lose. If he has an alt jump on you and knows what he's doing, you are dead. This happens to me all the time. Smile2

But what do I know, I'm sh*te, lol. Feel free to disregard this entire post. biggrin


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#3006991 - 05/05/10 08:22 PM Re: Tricks on dealing with a DR 1 using the Camel [Re: womenfly2]  
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Originally Posted By: womenfly2
One cannot imagine the high lift the 3 wings have at low airspeed, the sim does not do it justice.

Oh, I don't know... I think I have at least a small appreciation, owing to my complete inability to land the plane.

1. Look at windsock. Aim nose into the wind.

2. Descend, throttle all the way back.

3. Okay, that's not working. Blip engine. A lot.

4. Still not working. Kill engine.

5. Float helplessly across the entire length of the 'drome, about 4 feet above the ground.

6. No more areodrome left, get desparate, ease stick forward, crash.

Lift. A highly recommended quality for aircraft to have, within reason...

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