#2979069 - 03/19/10 10:09 AM
WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 128
Rich_Price
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Posts: 128
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Hi Guys Thought I would start a thread to show the progress of the Apache Flight Controls I have started. The overall plan is to have the Cyclic and Collective available to buy! Enjoy! Stage 1 Initial Prototyping of the Cyclic. Cheers Rich www.komodosimulations.co.uk
Last edited by Rich_Price; 03/19/10 10:10 AM.
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#2979102 - 03/19/10 12:41 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 410
GlynD
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Shropshire UK
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Rich Nice project And I know it is very early days yet and also my next question is a bit of a case of "how long is a piece of string", however I am going to ask anyway lol! Do you have a price range in mind yet please? Cheers
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#2979140 - 03/19/10 01:56 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 410
GlynD
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Shropshire UK
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Mmmm difficult one that - obviously it will be more than a mass produced joystick, possibly anything under the £180-200 mark would be acceptable to the WGPAF ( Wife/ Girlfriend/ Partner Approval Factor) Just a suggestion if I may, you might be better off doing the collective first as there is not a reasonably priced version available at the moment, whereas with the cyclic many people may be happy using their joystick of choice... Cheers
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#2979237 - 03/19/10 04:06 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 410
GlynD
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Shropshire UK
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Rich Yes at that price point, I would be expecting a plug and play solution. If a grip was available to integrate with a custom built flight stick then that would be a good option as well. Not so sure on a good price point for that... Horses for courses - some people like to custom build and would prefer just a grip and then others would prefer the whole thing in a nice and easy user friendly package. Up to you chap but I would say go ahead and do the grip first, followed by a collective - just my two pence worth though Cheers
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#2979447 - 03/19/10 09:10 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: GlynD]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
HitchHikingFlatlander
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California
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In the world of high end HOCAS (non existent) I would start you're pricing in the area of the upcoming A10 HOTAS from Thrustmaster. Expecting a quality A/C specific controller for under $300-400USD is just non sense. If it was a generic Collective/Stick that's one thing but this is all subjective to the final product. Look forward to watching the progress, I'd spend the money I mentioned (just have to save up for it lol).
I've got a bad feeling about this.....
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#2979587 - 03/20/10 04:20 AM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,269
AD
Hotshot
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Hotshot
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South East Asia
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This is great info guys thanks. If it were a full joystick rather than just a grip, would people prefer a desk height/mounted one or a floor standing version with the correct approx shaft length? A floor standing version with the long shaft would be the most popular, there really isn't an affordable off-the-shelf cyclic out there. Most people that want a cyclic have to modify their flight stick and that's usually a hit-or-miss affair and only for the technically minded. The shaft wouldn't even need to be an accurate length, just the length that works best for flight simulators. Looking forward to this and good luck! Cheers
Last edited by AD; 03/20/10 04:24 AM.
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#2980198 - 03/21/10 03:34 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,288
arneh
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Oslo, Norway
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I think the most important function, if you're making a helicopter controller, would be if you could model a proper force trim. That is, when you hold the force trim button, there is no centering force, and when you release it, then the centre will be whereever the stick is at the time the button is released. If you can make that then you have something really unique and very useful for helicopters!
Would also be interesting to have a proper cyclic controller. I.e. with long movement, so that it's easy to make fine adjustments. And the Apache one with the two grips looks interesting, and I assume useful when you have that many controls.
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#2980245 - 03/21/10 05:18 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: arneh]
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Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Flexman
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Leeds, England
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If money was no object Floor standing: Option 3, failing that option 1 (could option 3 be a kit add-on, you'd need some kind of ram for that, and small reliable ones wouldn't be exactly cheap). Desk mounted: I think Option 3. Budget model option 2. A conversion kit for a Saitek X52 might be popular. Just a thought.
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#2980301 - 03/21/10 07:04 PM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,288
arneh
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Oslo, Norway
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There is no actual centering force in a helicopter cyclic. Well, this is what the flight manual says about trimming. Either crewmember can trim the cyclic and pedal con- trols. A lateral, longitudinal, and directional trim feel magnetic brake and spring assembly is incorporated into each control system. Setting the pilot FORCE TRIM REL switch to the on position will engage the magnetic brakes in the longitudinal, lateral, and direc- tional flight controls. The spring assemblies will hold the cyclic stick and directional pedals in trim. Move- ment of the cyclic or directional controls, by either the pilot or CPG, with FORCE TRIM REL switch on, will cause the spring assemblies to compress and provide feel to the controls. When control pressure is released, the controls will return to their trimmed position. Re- trimming is accomplished by a TRIM pushbutton on the CPG cyclic stick or by a FORCE TRIM REL switch on the pilot cyclic stick grip. Pressing the button or pressing up on the switch releases the magnetic brake and allows the springs to travel to the new control posi- tion. Additionally, this action also allows the SAS ac- tuators to recenter, if necessary. Releasing the button or switch will then allow the magnetic brake to engage and hold the springs at the new position. The pilot may press the FORCE TRIM REL switch to the full down position to disable trim feel entirely.
(emphasise mine)
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#2981328 - 03/23/10 05:25 AM
Re: WAH-64D Apache Flight Controls Project
[Re: Rich_Price]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 172
DudleyAz
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Phoenix, AZ
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I'll weigh in on this, as I am working on a plan for a one-of conversion of a TM Cougar to a collective. I still plan on using the cougar stick as the cyclic, but am going to extend and angle the shaft a bit to fit my cockpit.
I would love to see a replacement grip option for the cougar. I would think this would allow you to produce the cyclic first, just grip and buttons, making it plug and play with existing controller/software. Seems to be a lot less to support/warranty later. Doing the same for the collective stands to reason as well.
As a replacement stick/throttle, I would pay up to $100/$150 if they were high quality and maintained all of the programming functionality of the Cougar.
If I were to seek an outright replacement of the whole thing, I would want them completely programmable, plug and play, floor mountable, with option 3 force trim on the cyclic. You know.. the whole sha-bang. I would expect to pay $300-$400 for it though.
And now you know what was rattling around in my brain bucket! Dud
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