Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#2974992 - 03/12/10 08:56 AM Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies.  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Catfish Offline
Member
Catfish  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Where the ocean meets the sky
They do not listen to the customers - but then why should they if those sheep still buy their crap.

" ... DRM is an excellent anti-consumer-rights scheme that can be easily marketed as anti-piracy. ..."

What it's all about.

1. Sell a "license" rather than a copy.

2. Make a resell of any game or software at all, impossible.

3. Demand constant online requirement, sell this as anti piracy measures.

4. Generally get internet companies into helping you to censor free opinions and abuse consumers rights.

5. When all have online requirement accepted and have to use it, introduce pay-per-play via online debit.


resulting in :

= customer rights cut down, complaints impossible (but it was stated in the box ! You opened that package and therefore accepted all .. )
= complete dependability on the company and servers
= constant cashflow from the consumers, which fees will be "adapted" (read: raised) from time to time, due to those "horrendous" development costs, online and programming costs (sic!), piracy blah blah blah.
= more people fired (sorry: "set free" in new business doublespeak) since the model runs itself automatically and is controlled by IP and eMail information
= pleased shareholders, because every one fired raises the share values.

Phantastic win-win situation for the suits. wink
Isn't this a great time.


Another viewpoint: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies:
Gabe Newell explaining why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg#t=3m30s
This says it all.

Greetings,
Catfish

P.S:: here are three reasons why UBI is good anyway (sarcastic):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5lQ-9reiLU

Last edited by Catfish; 03/12/10 01:02 PM. Reason: typoes, clarity
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2975024 - 03/12/10 12:06 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Catfish]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 850
KeyCat Offline
Member
KeyCat  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 850
Sweden
Well put Catfish and I came to almost the same conclusions after following the Ubisoft DRM fiasco! In addition to you list I would like to add...

6. Even if they don't go "Pay-to-Play" they now have implemented a pretty effective OFF-switch that lets them decide when you should stop playing the game/sim.

Looks like Ubisoft are trying to mimic Blizzards WoW concept for constant revenue for all their games/sims and blame it all on the piracy issue. Piracy is an issue and I have no objection that they protect their IP but Ubisofts way is the wrong way and IMO it will create more piracy rather than the opposit!

Personally I totally refuse to buy into this no matter how cool the game/sim is and if they get away with it (i.e if enough people buy into this crap!) and this becomes the norm I have two choices:

1. Continue to play older sim titles that I already own.

2. Find another hobby.

/KC


Last edited by KeyCat; 03/12/10 02:17 PM.

>> It's all about teamwork! <<
#2975071 - 03/12/10 02:47 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: KeyCat]  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,952
Jeevz Offline
Duke of URL
Jeevz  Offline
Duke of URL
Veteran

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,952
Clermont, FL
What about piracy as a result of entitlement mentality?


Commence to Jigglin'
#2975097 - 03/12/10 03:32 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Jeevz]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 681
Blackdog_kt Offline
Member
Blackdog_kt  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 681
I don't necessarily disagree with what you say guys, but labelling the MMO model as something totally bad is something that we should avoid for a very simple reason: the MMO model has a certain added value, ie it's not just requirements and subscriptions, it's also a certain amount of bonuses you get from accepting this. Persistent online worlds, competitive environment, a lot of tech support and content upgrades thank to the increased cash-flow, competitive events/tournamens with unique player prizes and so on.

The thing that worries me most is not a possible MMO model for some games, but the watered down version of it that will have all its requirements and none of its benefits. That's what some publishers are aiming for and in that sense we sure should voice our concerns and refuse to support it.

I wouldn't be able to support 3-4 monthly subscriptions for simulators, but even if i could support a single one and it functioned 100% like MMO games do i would be getting a terrific service.

Oh, and WoW is not the benchmark for me, it's just the most well-know buzzword. You still have to buy the content upgrades in WoW (the expansions). I used to play EvE online a few years ago and it was way better in all aspects,just not suitable for fantasy fans (it was a sci-fi affair, spaceships and so on).
At 14.95 Euros recurring monthly subscription i had it all: tech support, massive environment with 3500 solar systems, competitive community with things you don't see in any other game(spies and infiltration resulting in anything from a simple heist to turning the tide of massive battles), a bunch of different ways to play as the player could essentially shape his "carreer" depending on his chosen skills and playstyle (pirates, mercenaries, military alliances,extortionists, anti-pirates,bounty hunters, manufacturers, space traders, economic cartels, you name it), on-call tech support, FREE expansions for all subscribers, and most of all...a SINGLE map.

None of the usual deal of having the same universe cloned in a bunch of different servers that don't communicate. EvE Online had 70 servers on a server cluster that worked as one, so there were 50000 people playing in the same universe during weekends a little before i cancelled my subscriptions. This gives a massive canvas for the players to create their own histories, year-long rivalries and massive war campaigns. Last year one of the game's biggest political/military entity was dismantled, the efforts included a couple of years of constant wars (and war in EvE means the whole nine yards: economy,production and logistics before you can pull the trigger) and the entire rivalry spanned 3-5 years.

Plus, if you were sure you'd keep playing you could buy 3,6, or 12 months in advance at a discount, there were semi-regular promotional deals (buy a second account that expires in 3 months at a third of the price, enough time for example to train a second character that makes money for your primary character to waste in battles, then when it expires transfer both to the same account and close the redundant one), there were tournaments with unique prizes that ANYONE could enter at no extra cost, there was a daily one-hour downtime for maintenance, patch deployments and most downtimes were scheduled well in advance, there was infrastructure in place to handle in-game losses due to lag or technical glitches and in the rare event that something was totally broken by accident you'd be getting a hotfix, a rollback to the previous version or a couple of extra days to your subscription in no time at all, applied to all players regardless of how long they've been a subscriber or how many accounts they had, a yearly community fanfest where you could go to Iceland for a week (yep, that's where the dev team is based) and meet the devs and players from all over the world, stay in a top hotel and tour the geysers and thermal spa resorts if you had $400 to spare for the tickets, weekly podcasts, etc, etc, etc.

It was absolutely terrific service, it just moved in directions i didn't like gameplay-wise and got so massive that i didn't have time to follow what my buddies were doing, so i quit it.

Now, contrast all of this awesomeness with a one-time $40 purchase of a rushed-out-the-door, incomplete and bug ridden game that requires online connectivity without making any meaningfull use of it, which certain publishers try to pass off as an asset to the game. Exactly rofl

#2975923 - 03/13/10 11:04 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Blackdog_kt]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Catfish Offline
Member
Catfish  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Where the ocean meets the sky
Anyone who now downloads the cracked offline version of Silent Hunter 5 after two weeks of failing online connections with the UBI servers, has my full support and sympathy.
Never again this online crap.
Catfish

#2975937 - 03/13/10 11:37 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Catfish]  
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Dart Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Dart  Offline
Measured in Llamathrusts
Lifer

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 24,712
Alabaster, AL USA
So if DRM results in piracy, why do games without any copy protection or DRM get pirated?

Why do movies, which have very little by way of DRM, get pirated?

If it's bad service on the part of software companies that causes piracy, why does software from those companies with good customer service get pirated as well?

Sorry, this just sounds like justification for piracy. Everything is an excuse to pirate software - bad service, DRM, too high a price, ratings screen, animated DVD menu, a particularly rainy day, terrible box art, previous game releases, etc.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

More dumb stuff at http://www.darts-page.com

From Laser:
"The forum is the place where combat (real time) flight simulator fans come to play turn based strategy combat."
#2976034 - 03/14/10 03:51 AM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Dart]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 681
Blackdog_kt Offline
Member
Blackdog_kt  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 681
All kinds of things get pirated and they will continue to be.

The point where the line is drawn is between piracy due to an entitlement mentality by certain people and piracy due to what was described above, bad service. It's more than a simple blanket statement that can cover all possible scenarios and even the distinction i make is a purely simplified one for argument's sake. If we wanted to, we could also add piracy by legitimate customers who want to bypass certain features, piracy by people who want to try out the game before buying it, playing the single player campaign then buying it for the multiplayer, etc, etc, etc.

But let's just keep it simple for a start and divide it into the ones who think they are "sticking it to the suits" and the ones who want a hassle free game.
Pirate downloads that result from the first are not lost sales, because no matter the number of desirable features added and the number of undesirable ones that don't, such a person would still not buy the game anyway. Pirate downloads due to the second one are indeed lost sales, the customer is turned away due to bad service.

Conclusions?
1) The companies are not responsible for turning away someone who's not going to ever buy anything. They can't do much to influence such a person.
2) The companies are responsible for a fair share of pirate copies by disgruntled potential customers. They can do a lot to influence them, but most of them don't.
3) By 1 and 2 we deduce that the gaming industry is not entirely, but partly co-responsible for piracy.
4) The reason they are shooting themselves in the foot is that they are responsible for the preventable part of piracy by going on a wild goose chase against the non-preventable part.

Cheers wink

#2976041 - 03/14/10 04:06 AM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Dart]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,477
HomeFries Offline
Air Dominance Project
HomeFries  Offline
Air Dominance Project
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,477
Originally Posted By: Dart
So if DRM results in piracy, why do games without any copy protection or DRM get pirated?

Why do movies, which have very little by way of DRM, get pirated?

If it's bad service on the part of software companies that causes piracy, why does software from those companies with good customer service get pirated as well?


Why do people climb Mt. Everest?

Because it's there.

Gabe Newell's comments cannot be taken as absolute, but should be seen as generalization.

He is right that the pirates all have high end systems and are willing to pay for broadband connections, so they are willing to spend money.

I will add to the generalization: most guys who pirate software are not likely to cost the company a sale because they weren't planning on buying the software in the first place, so assigning the number of torrent downloads to a number of lost sales is not an accurate metric. Conversely, there is no true way of measuring a lost sale due to intrusive DRM, with the exception of complaints by irate customers, and those who are outspoken are the vast minority. So on paper, it looks like piracy costs sales and DRM does not, whereas reality likely paints a different, though unquantifiable picture.

None of this justifies piracy, nor is intended to make sympathy for pirates. However, it does raise the point that DRM does more to deter honest gamers than it does to deter pirates, and there is no real way to measure this loss.


-Home Fries

"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
- Robert A. Heinlein

The average naval aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring. These feelings just don't involve anyone else.

#2976186 - 03/14/10 12:12 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: HomeFries]  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
JESC
Unregistered


IMO people who CAN buy the game legally will do so. There was a time when I didn't know anything about computer games. My friends introduced me to it with... of course pirated copies --- startcraft, jeez, I can still remember the keycode which was banned in battle.net. That was waaay back 1998.

Now, what do I have? I have perfectly legal CDs of Starcraft. I even went to great lengths IIRC to get the legal CDs because I think the game was great and I just had to have the legit game.

I don't think they're losing any market if people who CAN buy the game legally will do so. I think everyone wants to have a legal working copy.

Last edited by JESC; 03/14/10 12:13 PM. Reason: changed term
#2977723 - 03/17/10 12:06 AM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: ]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,703
Blade_RJ Offline
Simhq Weather man, dropping rain in your parade
Blade_RJ  Offline
Simhq Weather man, dropping rain in your parade
Hotshot

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,703
brasil
same here jesc....i just hasd to find a legt copy of nolf series after i had played the pirate version in my teens. it was my way of saying thanks for the developer that i later found was long dead :X.

#2977881 - 03/17/10 05:58 AM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Blade_RJ]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 483
Aullido Offline
Member
Aullido  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 483
Buying DRM is shooting your own foot and a disservice to the community.

#2978191 - 03/17/10 07:44 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: HomeFries]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Cas141 Offline
Senior Member
Cas141  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,774
Northern hemisphere
Originally Posted By: HomeFries

However, it does raise the point that DRM does more to deter honest gamers than it does to deter pirates, and there is no real way to measure this loss.


Exactly true!

When are the suits going to realize this?


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#2978519 - 03/18/10 12:17 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Cas141]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 780
Groove Offline
Member
Groove  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 780
As long as software costs money, people will pirate it. With or without DRM.

#2978564 - 03/18/10 02:10 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Groove]  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,952
Jeevz Offline
Duke of URL
Jeevz  Offline
Duke of URL
Veteran

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,952
Clermont, FL
Originally Posted By: Groove
As long as software costs money, people will pirate it. With or without DRM.


Doesn't get much simpler than that. Piracy is about not paying for things, pure and simple.


Commence to Jigglin'
#2978621 - 03/18/10 03:22 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Jeevz]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
bisher  Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
Ironically the current DRM of some games has me hoping for a high rate of piracy, just to show the suits their policies are not working.


#2978660 - 03/18/10 04:08 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: bisher]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch Offline
Hotshot
Pooch  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
You know, I can't help but wonder how much money the gaming companies really lose to piracy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning it. The thing is, I've always felt that someone who really wants the game, can't wait 'til it comes out , and buys it.
The guys who uses pirated vesions, probably wouldn't have bought it anyway. Is that a bit naive? Maybe I'm completely wrong. Just seems that way to me.


"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace."
Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#2978683 - 03/18/10 04:40 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Pooch]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,892
GrayGhost Offline
Hotshot
GrayGhost  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,892
Yep, you're ignoring those would pay for the game if they couldn't pirate it - but they pirate it because they can. They are out there, and there are plenty enough of them.

Originally Posted By: Pooch
The guys who uses pirated vesions, probably wouldn't have bought it anyway. Is that a bit naive? Maybe I'm completely wrong. Just seems that way to me.


--
44th VFW
#2979073 - 03/19/10 10:35 AM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: GrayGhost]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Catfish Offline
Member
Catfish  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,763
Where the ocean meets the sky
Hello,
some ideas from Jayhawk in the community forum

" ...
Software "piracy" doesn't cause too much concern for the executives at Ubi, EA, Sega, Activision or Sony. The real or perceived losses due to pirates can be written off easily. But using piracy as a justfication for introducing increasingly invasive DRM schemes, subscription models, online registration (data mining!), and "services" like "premium" DLC (= charging extra for stuff that should have been in the game in the first place) is just too good for the suits to pass by. ..."

And here comes exactly what i think about it:

" ... Equaling the number of illegal downloads with lost sales does not wash. Some wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. Some might already have bought the game, but since the copy protection kept it from running, they downloaded the cracked version. Who knows? And there's still a huge number of users (dare I say the vast majority) who're not PC savvy enough to even think about getting a cracked game to run. A lot of PC users don't even know how to update their video drivers (they don't even know they're supposed to update them!). ..."

Greetings,
Catfish

#2979791 - 03/20/10 05:13 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Jeevz]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,703
WangoTango Offline
Hotshot
WangoTango  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,703
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jeevz
Originally Posted By: Groove
As long as software costs money, people will pirate it. With or without DRM.


Doesn't get much simpler than that. Piracy is about not paying for things, pure and simple.


Yep, it's the same reason people scam sattelite TV, mod thier game consoles, download free music/movies. Some people are honest a pay for things as they should. Unfortunately there is a large number of people who feel they are entitled to get wahtever they can for free, and then #%&*$# about DRM, when ironically it is them that has caused the counter measure.

#2979814 - 03/20/10 06:27 PM Re: Piracy is a result of bad service on the part of software companies. [Re: Jeevz]  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,269
AD Offline
Hotshot
AD  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,269
South East Asia
Originally Posted By: Jeevz
Originally Posted By: Groove
As long as software costs money, people will pirate it. With or without DRM.


Doesn't get much simpler than that. Piracy is about not paying for things, pure and simple.


Even if the software was free, and all you had to do was walk to the shop to collect it, people would still pirate it. While money is a factor, piracy occurs far more frequently due to convenience. A pirate can sit in his house, double click the mouse 2 or 3 times and have the software/media piped straight to his computer. He doesn't have to go anywhere or mess around with credit cards/online payments. There's no DRM to get tangled up in.

The mass majority of pirates are under-21. They're the tech-savy, office-chair-potato generation that happily spends all day every day glued to the computer. For them, going to the fridge is a mission, let alone the highstreet. They don't see the difference between turning on the TV and watching a movie, and turning on the computer and watching a movie.

Piracy is unfortunately the most convenient way to get stuff, that's why it's so become so rife.

Cheers

Last edited by AD; 03/20/10 06:37 PM.

Judge, jury and executioner of Tricubic's art department.

Follow Combat Helo's development on Facebook
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
10 years after 3/8/2014
by NoFlyBoy. 03/17/24 10:25 AM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0