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#2925091 - 12/22/09 11:30 PM Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like  
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Uriah Offline
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here is how things should look these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2GuGtFkxZI


Race you to the Mucky Duck!
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2925126 - 12/23/09 12:25 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Uriah]  
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No457_Squog Offline
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Yeah sure the sim looks good - but the menu will still look like Microsoft Excel in comparison to EAW! and that's coming from an IL-2 flyer!


No457_Squog
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#2925137 - 12/23/09 12:35 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: No457_Squog]  
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Uriah Offline
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AI and flight models to be sim level have a long way to go, but it is just beta so I have my hopes up.


Race you to the Mucky Duck!
#2925209 - 12/23/09 03:40 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Uriah]  
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Are you going to include the Western Front and the Pacific Theater as well?

It sure looks more like IL46 and not anything new my friend!

Please elaborate.

#2925228 - 12/23/09 04:29 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: miamieagle]  
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Hi,

new or not, the Flightmodel is IL-2 like and realy need a long way to go.

Both planes roll faster than even a FW190A would be able to and stalls or spins seems to be not existent. Same like in IL-2 a clean kill seems to be impossible, cause the planes keep their extreme manouverability at all speeds.
Hopefully they will take care same much about the FM/DM like they did regarding the graphics, otherwise its just another "Screenshot Sim".

Of course the graphics are outstanding in general, but how a pilot shal follow a target without padlock or fat icons is a miracle to me. At least on my side the planes turn to be extreme smal in not to far distance and particular invisible.

Incredible how much work they put into the look of the graphics, while playability related graphics seems to be far off.
Edit: I was wondering why that guy only make snapshots, but with the IL-2 like muzzle flashs, which cover the target, long shots are senceless anyway.
Imho a modern Sim must provide a graphic where the player can follow the targets without padlock(once he did spot it) and where he can shoot, without to get blind. What i see in this film is like what i saw in IL-2 some years ago, thats actually why i stopped to play IL-2.


Greetings,

Knegel


1st engined flight by Richard Pearse, Waitohi, New Zealand, March 31, 1902. Karl Jatho, 1st flight, 18.August 1903, Hannover-Vahrenheide, real controlled flights.
The Wrights, 1st flight, 17. December 1903. They wasnt the 1st, but still claim this!
#2925241 - 12/23/09 05:06 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Knegel]  
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Tarnsman Offline
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Looks good. The lighting effects add alot.

#2925295 - 12/23/09 09:26 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Tarnsman]  
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Pobs Offline
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Looks lovely but I wonder what the framerate will be on my 2.6 Gig machine and geforce6800 card ??... even on minimum graphics settings!!... lol smile

and I wonder whether I can jump from plane to plane or whether I will have a tea-break length wait every time I crash...


still, lovely to watch and see what the rich can play...


cheers,


Pobs

Last edited by Pobs; 12/23/09 02:45 PM.
#2925344 - 12/23/09 12:38 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Pobs]  
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sydbod Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pobs
Looks lovely but I wonder what the framerate will be on my 2.6 Meg machine and geforce6800 card ??... even on minimum graphics settings!!... lol smile


Sorry to have to say this Pobs, but don't you think that maybe it is time to upgrade your machine to something a bit faster than a 2.6 Meg machine.
Even EAW will not run on a machine that slow. smile


"Peace, love and eternal grooviness, man."
#2925377 - 12/23/09 01:32 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: sydbod]  
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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I'd be happy to have a PIII 800 at the moment. Not all of us have pockets full of money for computers. frown


Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. wink

1.29 download
#2925406 - 12/23/09 02:28 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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sydbod Offline
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Hi John, I was just highlighting that Pobs had stated 2.7 Meg, rather than what he probably meant was 2.7 Gig Hz.

The very first IBM PC was already at 4.7 Meg (MHz). There never was a machine as slow as 2.7MHz in the IBM compatable PC range. smile


"Peace, love and eternal grooviness, man."
#2925415 - 12/23/09 02:45 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: sydbod]  
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Pobs Offline
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hehehe OK, fired the proof reader and edited the post smile...


cheers,


Pobs

#2925515 - 12/23/09 04:36 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Pobs]  
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Knegel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pobs
Looks lovely but I wonder what the framerate will be on my 2.6 Gig machine and geforce6800 card ??... even on minimum graphics settings!!... lol smile

and I wonder whether I can jump from plane to plane or whether I will have a tea-break length wait every time I crash...


still, lovely to watch and see what the rich can play...


cheers,


Pobs


Are you kidding??

I did play IL-2 already with an K7 700MHz PC and a 32MB Graphiccard. Of course not at the highest level, but at that time 2.7GHz was still only a dream.

With my older 1600MHz PC and a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro IL-2 did run on highest settings with higher FPS than it did run EAW, even at ground level.

I think PC performence is not that much a argument anymore, for me actually it never was.

Btw, my current dual core 2400 GHz i got for free.
A brand new PC with so low specs have a price of maybe 250-300 Euro.

To hide behind PC performence dont realy work anymore, with some rare exceptions.
As i wrote in my 1st post, i got other arguments to stay with EAW. smile


Greetings,

Knegel


1st engined flight by Richard Pearse, Waitohi, New Zealand, March 31, 1902. Karl Jatho, 1st flight, 18.August 1903, Hannover-Vahrenheide, real controlled flights.
The Wrights, 1st flight, 17. December 1903. They wasnt the 1st, but still claim this!
#2925580 - 12/23/09 05:47 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Colonel Kern Offline
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Originally Posted By: Col. Gibbon
I'd be happy to have a PIII 800 at the moment. Not all of us have pockets full of money for computers. frown


Exactly. I'm done chasing technology. Between that and the outrageous DRM schemes we are faced with these days I am bound and determined to become a technological hermit. I have more sims right now than I have time for and they all run great on my modest machine.


The Colonel

"They're not toys. They're collectables."
#2925720 - 12/23/09 09:05 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Colonel Kern]  
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Pobs Offline
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Hi Ralf,

sorry can't agree. I have BoB2 on this machine now and if I have a single plane in the air with reasonably high settings and I dive to view the ground objects, I can see the game slowing down, not quite a slide show but clearly less than 20 fps. When I last tried Il-2 it was on an old PIII, 450Mhz machine with a geforce 5700 card if I remember correctly, and I had to turn the settings so low the graphics were considerably worse than EAW. The comment regarding the 2.6MHz machine refer to the sim in the film, I don't know which version it is but I can pretty much guarantee you that my machine with this vid card would not run it at the sort of settings shown in anything other than a slideshow...:)

and like Col. Kern, I am not interested in any game that adds spyware in the form of a DRM scheme to my computer....so most modern sims are out for me anyway...

cheers,


Pobs

#2925858 - 12/24/09 12:47 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Pobs]  
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Uriah Offline
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Let me be clear, in no way does Wings of Prey come close to EAW in SIM quality (which is on the light end) or address the issues that Knegel raises. That said, by modern standards you only need a modest cpu and gpu. But more than many can afford. My only point is that the graphics can look darn super. Some day my dreams of great graphics, good sim qualities, seeing planes at a distance, and good online connecton/play will all come together. RoF does good in all but the online play. In that game you have to wait until a game stops to be able to join on a server. WoP does super in the graphics. It still is beta so I have hopes of improvement.


Race you to the Mucky Duck!
#2925864 - 12/24/09 12:56 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Pobs]  
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sydbod Offline
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Just thought it may be worthwhile about what this topic is supposed to be about.
Quote:
Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like


I personally think that the looks of that sim are very good. Probably one of the best I have seen to date.

I do realise that many people are getting tired of chasing technology.
Hell I even get pissed off because it it so hard to find a microwave oven with just 2 knobs on it. One for the power level, and the other for the time duration. Why do we have to have things so complex and expensive all the time.

I am certain that we are all still running around in our model T Ford. After all who wants power steering and airconditioning in their car. It is also so invigerating getting up one hour before every one else, just to manually crank that old engine in the car to life every morning.

Maybe we should put things into perspective.
Performance doubles every 2 years or so at the same price point.
In 10 years time any new person coming into the computer market who purchases a new bottom end machine at that time will be able to run that game at full settings. There will be people on this forum saying "I refuse to update my machine all the time chasing technology for these new games when this old (10 year old game) runs so well".

How many of you own a plasm or LCD TV when an old black and white TV with a perspex tri color screen sitting over the front of it will give 3 color TV viewing???? I am certain none of you even considered the aspect of chasing technology in this case. Your new TV offers capabilities that your older ones could not match, so you purchased it.
The same applies with any new computer hardware as time progresses.
If you want realistic graphics, then you require more powerful hardware.
To get more powerful hardware, you pay more for it NOW, or you wait some time, until it costs peanuts. The choice is yours.


"Peace, love and eternal grooviness, man."
#2925996 - 12/24/09 06:44 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: sydbod]  
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Knegel Offline
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Hi Pobs,

i dont know BoBII, but what you see in that video, your PC by easy can handle.

I cant see any ground objects in that video, neighter real clouds.

And of course your 450MHz PC cant run IL-2 very well, but the is a smal different between 450 and 2700MHz and most probably your RAM is also bigger this days.

And of course, with extreme ground graphics you can kill the FPS of the best PCs, but dont we look for flight experiences?? I think when flying with 500km/h you dont need to render every leaf and single stone.

With your PC you should be able to run all the BoBII planes with good fps, while you probably need to turn down the ground objects a little. Still the ground stuff will be better than what we have.

Included spy software of course is a reason not to use a software.

Greetings,

Knegel


1st engined flight by Richard Pearse, Waitohi, New Zealand, March 31, 1902. Karl Jatho, 1st flight, 18.August 1903, Hannover-Vahrenheide, real controlled flights.
The Wrights, 1st flight, 17. December 1903. They wasnt the 1st, but still claim this!
#2926031 - 12/24/09 08:39 AM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: Knegel]  
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RAF_Roy Offline
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Must admit I was at first a bit annoyed by another one of these posts, but then I thought why not make the best of it?

My opinion, critiques:
  • Them - The terrain looks nice, but not totaly amazing.
  • Us - We should be able to get some of ours closer now we have the 16 bit .bmps in game, if we use satellite and photo images, although to date no one has done one that good IMHO.

  • Them - The citytown shown in the video not that great.
  • Us - looks similar to my city tiles in GaznGuns-beta terrain, so I'm not that impressed. Compare:

  • Them - The low level flight perspective I like. I believe it is more realistic.
  • Us - Reminds me of an old test I did with larger fields made from a satellite terrain, which even roughly done at low / mid levels was better than most of our terrains, IMHO, due to the perspective it created, colors from the tiles, and the detail, but no one pursued it, and I never got back to it. I don't have the files on this PC or I could post a pic.
    The GaznGuns (mostly converted from Gunship) has a good lower level perspective also, if any try it.


Shreck also was trying some satellite terrains but he had to quit, and that was before we had the .bmp capability. Col. Gibbon also tried some recently.

EAW is obviously not capable of the highest visual qualities, but I think we can get a bit closer, but much more has to be paid attention to geting the terrain up to better quality, IMHO.

There is some work in progress towards getting more # of tiles variety capability into the terrain, which we need. Currently the 1.28 series can show 64 various tiles, an increase of 5 tiles from the 59 of old EAW 1.2.
Per a reliable unnamed source;
Quote:

..you would theoretically get 16384 (14 bits) tiles..

If the breakthrough is made.
I'm hoping for just a partial breakthrough, as mere fraction of that (@ a few hundred) would suffice, since the visual distance EAW renders tiles is not very far the tilea would not be repeated in visual range.
  • Them - looked fun flying
  • Us - is fun flying and we currently do all that with the best of them, if not better!

wink

Us, and them.. And after all we're only ordinary men

Last edited by RAF_Roy; 12/24/09 09:09 AM.

Roy's || Tally Ho Pages
#2926076 - 12/24/09 12:31 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: RAF_Roy]  
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AngleOff Offline
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Well,
don't know how it handles, but to me, it looks stunning!
The way the planes look is excellent, but what really intriques me
are some of the camera views and the way the planes don't seem 'attached'
to the view.......sort of a floating view.....
The lighting and reflections, to me, gave a great sense of realism and immersion.
Don't know if actually flying that sim would ruin that perspective, but just from
watching the video, this is how real I have always wanted a sim to look.

I too have flown IL-2 quite a bit, but could never get it to run uber, and was
never satisfied with the handling, and even flying at 3000 feet, I can see the
curvature of the earth......didn't like that at all.

The one thing that seems obvious to me thou, is that that sim has a flight-recorder!
THAT is what makes it possible to get such great video and camera views to make it
look so good!
We HAD a flight recorder in AOE and PAW. What happened to it when they developed EAW?
Can you imagine how many great missions that we could have shared amongst our
community? How many of you experienced that 'excellent' mission, that just 'happened'
and you were never able to re-create?

We are all 'use' to EAW......but if we EVER had out graphics looking that good, we
would all pee our pants.....you know this is true..... neaner

AO

#2926089 - 12/24/09 12:54 PM Re: Just thought I would share what a modern sim should look like [Re: AngleOff]  
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VonBeerhofen Offline
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Works great on my super computer, but will it on yours?



VonBeerhofen

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