Hi,

I'm about to order a new mid-upper level pc. I'd planned on getting Windows7 64bit system until I learned that GTL won't run on a 64bit system because of starforce. That's a deal breaker. So, my question is - should I get a 32bit system? Should I get a dual boot system with Windows 7 64bit and Windows XP?

I have a lot of older games, like EECH, F4AF and I'm worried about compatibility, so XP is good, but I hate to get 4gig ram and see some of it wasted and also not be able to take advantage of future technology, so Win7 64bit is also good!

What do you think I should do?

(new system will be Core i7 860, Nvidiagtx260 with 4 gig DDR3 2000 ram, 1 Tb hdd)

might as well dual boot; I have XP and Win7 set up on two partitions and every time I boot up I get a menu that lets me select which one to load. Pretty painless...and you probably won't need all 4gigs for older games (or at least see a difference anyways).

With one HD I would choose the dual boot option with XP/Win7 which is really painless as NoUseforAName already stated.

Or you could go with 2 HD´s, connect one at a time and install XP/Win7 on it.
Every new Mobo will give you the option to boot from a different boot device at startup, so you could then choose the HD with the OS of your liking.
That´s even more painless as you will never have to fiddle around with a boot manager or think about the correct install order in case of a reformat.

Did setup my system that way when I installed Win7x64 a few weeks ago.
Though I find XP becoming less important for me, as Win7 works and I´m not using any non compatible stuff atm.

If your not some sort of nerdy power user, 64bit Windows (any version) is pretty much useless. I run 64bit Win7 on my laptop and 32bit on my desktop, and the only problems I have are with the 64bit iteration.

If your just doing email/web surfing/MSN et al/gaming, then go 32bit, a least then all your legacy hardware and software will work, and you wont notice any difference in performance.

Just keep in mind, you have to have XP installed first. You can't install 7 and then try to set up a dual boot system. There probably is a way, I just don't know what it is. I have XP on my C drive and 7 on the D. You can also partition one drive to work with both. Win 7 has the tools to take care of the partitioning.

That couldn't be any further from the truth on a multitude of points.

As for GTL and 64-bit systems, all you need to do is update your starforce drivers and the game runs fine on Vista 32/64 and Windows 7 32/64.

Thanks.

Yes, I'm not sure about whether to just get a 32bit Win 7 - but having read the thread on 32vs64, I think to help future-proof and to get the benefit of 4gigs in future titles, I probably should go with 64. I was all ready to go until I read a post at another racing forum about GTL. There are some workarounds:no-cd + other files, but even then there are sound issues. All because of Starforce (I've never experienced any other problem with starforce in the past). Which makes me think that the smaller, supportive, integrated software packages (like starforce) that must be everywhere but which you only buy as part of a bundle to support something else are less likely to be updated to 64bit. Likewise any freeware, and older games and older peripheral devices and printers. So, it seems like a dual boot 64 and 32 system seems right. You guys don't think it's much of an issue?

Also, what about partitions? With a 1tb hdd, should I have it partioned like:
150gb - Win 7
700gb - Recent games
150gb - Win XP and legacy games/software ???

Only speaking from personal experience, Daz. The scenario editor for one of my games doesnt work on 64bit, and Flash apps can be a problem as well. Try finding a 64bit anti virus.

What advantage can there be for gamers using 32bit over 64bit? Will FSX, Falcon4 or Arma2 run better?

I haven't been able to ultimately verify it, but most sources indicate that GFX Card memory counts against the max. memory limit in XP32 (and likely all other 32bit systems).

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778(VS.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7

So meaning: Your 32bit OS can max. support 4GB RAM (of which is a certain part is used for adress storage itself, so available for the OS and Games is always less than 4GB, lets say 3.5 to 3.7).

If you have a GFX card with 1GB RAM, or an SLI setup with 2GB Vid RAM, this counts against the total, so now the total available system RAM is ~3.7GB minus 2GB Vid Ram means 1.7GB left for OS and games.

Now, not many people are going to have 2GB Vid Memory in their system, but even with just one, you come out at 2.5GB system RAM left. Most games can use up to 2GB themself, some are coded for "large adress awareness" and can use 3GB. Now, obviously if the OS uses a bit of RAM itself - 256 or 512 for XP, depending on background processes - you have less RAM available than your game could actually use.

With a 64bit system, you get 4GB System RAM available + 1GB or as much as you want GFX RAM. The the adressing overhead is a bit larger in 64bit systems, so from the 4GB system RAM you might have 3.4 or thereabout truly available for OS + Apps. Which is still plenty for most games that can only use 1GB, and still very good when the game uses 3GB.

IMHO, you are better off biting trough this now once and get your apps running on Win7 64 instead of investing the effort in a dual boot. Unless you have really unlucky software running, most stuff will work just fine on x64.

Generally speaking, most stuff that doesn't install drivers (like Starforce) should work since it will just be emulated as 32bit. Stuff that does install drivers, like TrackIR or VPN Software in my case, usually has Vista 64 versions around which work with Win7 x6.

16bit software will not work on a 64x OS, which might be the case with that scenario editor mentioned above (but such stuff must be ancient?)

Swings and roundabouts, isnt it?

Im lucky in that i have a laptop almost as powerful as my desktop pc, so i can run 64bit on one and 32bit on t'other.

It's unlikely that certain games don't work on 64-bit systems as the kernel automatically works in emulation mode (wow64).....in this mode the 64-bit subsystem is basically hidden. The problem is more likely to be linked with something else. Have you tried the compatibility modes as first port of call?

NoD32 supports 64-bit, as does any other decent AV solution. I'm not aware of any 64-bit virus's/malware though.

As far as games go, most games (particularly newer games) will have improved performance in a 64-bit OS because all 2GB of RAM (32-bit software limitation) is accessible to the game like RSColonel stated, in 32-bit systems, the RAM limit (4Gb visible but only 3GB accessible) is also affected by VRAM and the Operating System constantly using background resources.

Well, from what I can see from the Star-Force website, lots of old Starforce games are not going to run on Win 7 or on 64 bit systems and Starforce couldn't care less (unless publishers want to pay starforce again and update old games!). That's why starforce games should be avoided I guess - there's more of a chance that you waste your money on the game because it won't be supported in future.

Check out these links on the starforce home page:

http://www.star-force.com/support/users/windows7/
" * Protection versions below 5.5 do not support Windows 7.
Users of products that protected with 3.x/4.x/5.0 versions should contact the protected program developers or publishers to obtain Windows 7 patches, or use previous Windows version to run the products.

StarForce offers FREE re-protection for all the developers and publishers of the programs that utilize version below 5.50 to release the appropriate patches. Please contact your sales manager for re-protection and further details.*

* Protection versions 5.5/5.6 partially support Windows 7.
Due to constant changes within Windows 7 during its development process some 5.5/5.6 builds may not fully support this OS. In case of failure please update the protection driver through the protect.exe utility or use a protected program developer’s patch to be able to run the protected programs in Windows 7."

Also check out

http://www.star-force.com/support/users/64bit/

"Older than 3.05

These versions will never be able to work with 64-bit OS.

StarForce offers FREE re-protection for all the developers and publishers of the programs that utilize version below 3.05 to release the appropriate patches. Please contact your sales manager for re-protection and further details.*
3.05 and later These versions support working with 64-bit OS with the corresponding restrictions in case of Windows Vista x64 (described above)."

So, the big question is "What games do I have on my system that are Starforce games and won't work with Windows 7?"

Just another reason to avoid SF all together.