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#2902199 - 11/17/09 12:30 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Gopher]  
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They are even more rare if eliminated.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
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#2902204 - 11/17/09 12:33 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Gopher]  
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In my general area there are a massive number of indoor marijuana grow ops, and quite a few folks who make a living by looting them, these guys quite frequently get the wrong address and are frequently "looking for trouble" since they expect the occupants to be armed. There's also a lot of regular type home invaders too.

#2902206 - 11/17/09 12:44 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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I'll guarantee you, if a perp came into a tent of Army Rangers, he is going to have one huge can of whomp ass. They're not going to run away. Not if it was a tent of one.

As for the idea that druggies and car thieves are pretty much harmless, think again. They put themselves into a situation of stealing someone's property. Maybe I like my cash or my car and I don't appreciate jerks taking it away from me. Remember the old West? They hung horse thieves didn't they? Why? Because if you left a man stranded without a horse, he would likely die. So horse thieves got the rope. Not saying that someone who gets their car stolen is going to die like a cowboy, but why the hell should they put up with that? Just roll over I guess.

One more thing. Sometimes, when a crime is in progress, things get out of hand. What starts as a simple burglary, no one gets hurt, turns into two dead people. It happens and it happens all the time.


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#2902216 - 11/17/09 01:01 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: gbarclay]  
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Originally Posted By: gbarclay
Next morning I checked the side of the house and found the window screen laying on the ground and the sensor bulbs unscrewed.


Glad you got out of that situation. Had similar happen, and when a couple of dudes decide they want to kick down a door it happens alarmingly fast. In fact so fast that I had to realize that I might have little chance to even get close to my weapons, or get out of the house. In my case I had to run out the front door while the intruders ran after me from the back.

Simple things though can give early warning. Lights placed where anyone near them is very easy to see for neighbors. An intercom system, so you can hear outside more clearly. We started a neighborhood watch group, and the signs were used as a deterrent as well.


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#2902222 - 11/17/09 01:10 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: 20mm]  
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If knew it was a female nympho I would have helped her through the window, but as I didn't, I figured the best thing to do was to yell and scare him off before he gets inside. Then I would have really been in trouble.

The really scary part was his hand coming through the window to push the curtains aside.

Another real life drama.


There's nothing worse than going through life unhappy about various things.

Bob Rae

One-fifth of the people are against everything all the time.

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#2902228 - 11/17/09 01:16 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: gbarclay]  
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Sierra Hotel

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Understood, that would freak me out too.

You take good precautions that this doesn't happen again.

I can tell you from personal experience that even when there isn't a face to face confrontation, having your home broken into and your stuff stolen is violating. You start watching everyone that walks by, you listen for every noise.

Hell, my house burps and pops all the time in the winter. Sometimes it wakes me up and I go "what the hell was that?" Sometimes it's the house, sometimes it's the cats. Thank God it hasn't been someone trying to get in.

Take care.


Pat Tillman (1976-2004):
4 years Arizona State University, graduated with high honors.
5 seasons National Football League player, Arizona Cardinals.
Forever United States Army Ranger.
#2902230 - 11/17/09 01:18 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: 20mm]  
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Remember how they got Luca Brasi to hold still while they garroted him in "The Godfather"?

Cheers!

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#2902234 - 11/17/09 01:22 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: 20mm]  
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The type of laws that prevent someone from defending their home and family are what bring in more criminals. You may as well make a law saying it is illegal to lock your doors.

#2902236 - 11/17/09 01:24 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: gbarclay]  
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I don't care where you live, some security measures are in order to at least the very prevent someone getting into your place without being obvious. You don't have to turn your place into Cheyenne Mountain but enough needs to be done to keep intruders from getting in before you can respond or from being able to watch you unknowingly.

#2902240 - 11/17/09 01:25 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Hankmc]  
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Bingo. Excellent Hank.


Pat Tillman (1976-2004):
4 years Arizona State University, graduated with high honors.
5 seasons National Football League player, Arizona Cardinals.
Forever United States Army Ranger.
#2902255 - 11/17/09 01:57 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Hankmc]  
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Originally Posted By: Hankmc
The type of laws that prevent someone from defending their home and family are what bring in more criminals. You may as well make a law saying it is illegal to lock your doors.


I'm surprised that isn't the case here actually, that's what happens when these laws are written by a well protected elite that doesn't have to worry about these things from the safety of their ivory towers.

#2902259 - 11/17/09 02:00 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Hankmc]  
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Originally Posted By: Hankmc
The type of laws that prevent someone from defending their home and family are what bring in more criminals. You may as well make a law saying it is illegal to lock your doors.


I don't know if it will bring more criminals, but yes, people should be able to defend their home, their loved ones, and preferably the stranger on the street that is being mugged. I do think it should not get out of hand though. Break his arm or knee with a baseball bat, OK. Keep hitting him on the head repeatedly? That is too much. This 'Castle law' (?) that exists in some states is too extreme in the other direction. If I understand correctly, that allows (yes I know, extreme case) the killing of people taking an apple from the apple tree in your garden.

Last edited by Legend; 11/17/09 02:01 AM.

There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
#2902264 - 11/17/09 02:11 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Legend]  
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Taking an apple is not a threat to life. Those who make a living breaking into homes, carjacking women or the elderly are in a dangerous profession and have to take their chances.

If I was going to make my way as a thief the first thing I would want to learn is what states are carry states, where is it easy to get a gun, where do break in laws have teeth and then I would ply my dangerous trade elsewhere.

#2902268 - 11/17/09 02:18 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Hankmc]  
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If he were breaking into my garage or my car, I'd just probably scare him off. If he dared enter my house, then meet Mr. Baseball Bat. Sure, I'd not whack him on the head, and I'd stop when he's down, but have you ever taken a swing at someone's midriff? Or his knee? Or his shin? Then I'd call the cops. Disable him first, secure the safety of my family first, then the law can sort the mess out later.


- Ice
#2902278 - 11/17/09 02:28 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Legend]  
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Originally Posted By: Legend
Originally Posted By: Hankmc
The type of laws that prevent someone from defending their home and family are what bring in more criminals. You may as well make a law saying it is illegal to lock your doors.


I don't know if it will bring more criminals, but yes, people should be able to defend their home, their loved ones, and preferably the stranger on the street that is being mugged. I do think it should not get out of hand though. Break his arm or knee with a baseball bat, OK. Keep hitting him on the head repeatedly? That is too much. This 'Castle law' (?) that exists in some states is too extreme in the other direction. If I understand correctly, that allows (yes I know, extreme case) the killing of people taking an apple from the apple tree in your garden.


There's a different variety of criminal in North America, especially in the U.S. They are more likely to kill to get what they want and many times there's not even any kind of economic incentive. With that being the case it's best to treat intruders as extreme threats and to have laws that see them in that light as well.

#2902280 - 11/17/09 02:29 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Hankmc]  
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Originally Posted By: Hankmc
The type of laws that prevent someone from defending their home and family are what bring in more criminals. You may as well make a law saying it is illegal to lock your doors.


Don't listen to those who suggest that you are not allowed to defend yourself or your property in Canada; they're either flat out misinformed or they have an agenda to push by spreading misinformation. The Criminal Code of Canada makes it quite clear that you are allowed to use force - up to an including deadly force, as long as it is warranted - in defense of person and property.

Here are the relevant sections:

The Criminal Code of Canada


Originally Posted By: The Criminal Code of Canada

DEFENCE OF HOUSE OR REAL PROPERTY

... / Assault by trespasser.
41. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling-house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom, if he uses no more force than is necessary.

(2) A trespasser who resists an attempt by a person who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, or a person lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority to prevent his entry or to remove him, shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation. (R.S. c.C-34, s.41.)

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.41.html

Originally Posted By: The Criminal Code of Canada

SELF-DEFENCE AGAINST UNPROVOKED ASSAULT

... / Extent of justification.
34. (1) Every who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if

(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and
(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm. (R.S. c.C-34, s.34.)

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.34.html

#2902284 - 11/17/09 02:37 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Alan Smithee]  
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yeah except you are not allowed to use a firearm in your defense or you WILL be charged with assault at least, at worst 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. look at past cases. guns are no go in canada.

i had a breakin similar to what happened to gbarclay in my home while i was alone. he knocked on my door first then came to my window and hung around for a minute, when i went to answer the door to see who he was i noticed he started opening the window and crawling in. unfortunately for him i was practicing japanese sword arts at the time and my room was full of swords. he lived through the encounter but i'm sure he has a nice scar these days.

there's no chance in hell i'd ever report something like that to the police in canada, no way. they'd lock me up and throw me in jail for defending my property from an actual criminal. this incident happened in 2005.

#2902285 - 11/17/09 02:38 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Alan Smithee]  
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Originally Posted By: Alan Smithee
Originally Posted By: Hankmc
The type of laws that prevent someone from defending their home and family are what bring in more criminals. You may as well make a law saying it is illegal to lock your doors.


Don't listen to those who suggest that you are not allowed to defend yourself or your property in Canada; they're either flat out misinformed or they have an agenda to push by spreading misinformation. The Criminal Code of Canada makes it quite clear that you are allowed to use force - up to an including deadly force, as long as it is warranted - in defense of person and property.


However in practice the burden of proof will tend to be on you to prove that you used reasonable force. There's a lot of room for legal interpretation in Canadian law you can expect an example being made out of you if at all possible.

Anyways, glbarclay, I recall not long ago you saying that people discussing break-ins were paranoid and had something to hide? Is that still the case?

#2902334 - 11/17/09 03:26 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: Crane Hunter]  
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Quote:
glbarclay, I recall not long ago you saying that people discussing break-ins were paranoid and had something to hide? Is that still the case?


Yes. When you decide to shoot first and ask questions after.
The best defence is to keep them out in the first place.




There's nothing worse than going through life unhappy about various things.

Bob Rae

One-fifth of the people are against everything all the time.

Robert Kennedy

#2902342 - 11/17/09 03:42 AM Re: A scary moment. [Re: gbarclay]  
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Originally Posted By: gbarclay
Yes. When you decide to shoot first and ask questions after.
The best defence is to keep them out in the first place.


Indeed it seems you aren't as good as following your own advice as giving it.

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