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#2888253 - 10/26/09 05:52 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: 2005AD]  
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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The aspect ratio issues has been fixed. I am re-posting the video. HD should appear in a bit.

The Camel is not easy to fly and neither is the DR.1 for that matter. Its taken me a couple days to get to this point. Their famed instability with the rotaries is modeled. I've stalled a few times and crashed. The FM in the video is still Beta remind you.

And with regards to the throttle I have no idea what is accurate. I'm just not as familar with WWI birds and their details.

I make these videos with icons on and sometimes I resort to simple guages to make things easy and speed up the aerial carnage for the video.

You guys will like both planes I am sure. They are fun and very iconic.

Jason

Last edited by 777 Studios - Jason; 10/26/09 06:00 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2888265 - 10/26/09 06:13 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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2005AD Offline
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So it was just you making it look easy... apart from the shooting smile

#2888266 - 10/26/09 06:13 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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BlueRaven Offline
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Oklahoma
Great video Jason,

I'm sure if you released the promo video for the Dr1 first, then everyone would be saying that the Dr1 is over modeled and that the Camel is under modeled.

There were a couple spots in the video that looked like it was trying to stall and spin on you, but you caught it early.

Remember everyone, this is a promo video for the Camel. They aren't going to show it crashing and stalling and being shot down.

Just wait for the Dr1 video for that.


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God damned bananas!!!
#2888268 - 10/26/09 06:18 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: BlueRaven]  
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MIG77 Offline
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Also you can notice that most turns are to right (to way where Camel had its best turn). Anyway cant wait to fly both of them smile


You can get used to everything, but icicle in the a**. It melts before you get used to it.
#2888269 - 10/26/09 06:19 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Catfish]  
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777 Studios - Jason Offline
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Southern California or Moscow
Originally Posted By: Catfish
Hello,
thanks for the video, well made and good sights at the planes.
We will have to wait a few days for trying this out, but there are some things: When doing a right turn the Camel does not seem to hold any perils in stalling and spinning out of control - at one scene (2/3ds ?) where the Dr.I crashes, the Camel stands on its right wing and circles above, from the airspeed this would have been impossible ? Then i saw the Dr.I always loses its upper wing, but it did not in reality. The predecessoer of the Dr.I, called the F1 (Voss' plane), did.
But really nice to see, i hope the inertia of the engines is modelled in the right way..
Thanks and greetings,
Catfish


Heavy rudder is needed on these planes. They are a challenge to fly and I almost lose it a couple times in the video where I let off the rudder and it tries to spin me. Dr.1s can loose their wing under fire or loose a damaged one like anyone else. These fights were edited for time and some hits were left on the cutting room floor. One had already lost one to gun fire before I pounced on him and I shot the aileron off another. And I caused MVR to loose him lower right wing before I PK him.

Jason

#2888272 - 10/26/09 06:29 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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Catfish Offline
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Where the ocean meets the sky
Hello Jason,
i see, i was aware of the first (?) Dr.I being already damaged, and another one having lost half of its lower wing . I thought there was a scene when a Dr.I crossed the path of your Camel in a steep dive, and then lost his upper wing - it just looked as if it would have been speed alone, but i understand it had been already damaged.
Good to hear you needed lots of rudder!
Thanks for answering directly,
Greetings,
Catfish

Last edited by Catfish; 10/26/09 06:30 PM.
#2888277 - 10/26/09 06:38 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: 777 Studios - Jason]  
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Jimko Offline
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Jason, thank you for taking the time to give us this excellent video on a plane that so many of us have been waiting for!

cheers

I posted a fairly long set of quotes about flying the Camel on a previous thread that some may find intereseting at:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2880782/Sopwith_Camel_anyone_2nd_try.html#Post2880782

However, at this time, I will wait to see how she flies before I analyze the original flying characteristics and make any comparisons.

I can also imagine that with every flight model, neoqb are between a 'rock and hard place'...it's too easy, it's too difficult, it's not correct, etc, if flight controls and other issues are any examples. As an example, I found the flight control sensitivites near impossible at first, and now I manage them instinctively and with ease. There must always, I think, be some compromise between an impossible reality and practical ability when it comes to modeling flight in a sim.


Jimko

"The older we are, the better we were!"
#2888306 - 10/26/09 07:22 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Jimko]  
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Mogster Offline
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England
Jason Is that the new bump mapped terrain? The textures look nicer than what we have now.

On the other hand maybe you've just picked a particularly photogenic time of day in ROF land.


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#2888488 - 10/27/09 12:02 AM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Mogster]  
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piper Offline
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That was a well done vid Jason!

..if the RoF dev's did half the job you do (showing) their work, this forum would be
more pleasent place to visit.

#2888563 - 10/27/09 02:44 AM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: piper]  
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Everytime I read the topic title, I think it reads: Sopwith Camel Porno Video... LOL


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#2888629 - 10/27/09 06:01 AM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Dart]  
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WWBrian Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dart


And will we get the video where Brian says "Okay, you shot me down enough, let me do you now" for the DR1 promotion?

hahaha



ROFLMAO! You have no idea! Well, actually, it looks like you do! hahaha


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#2888650 - 10/27/09 07:16 AM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: WWBrian]  
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That run down the tree-lined waters reminded me of the final scene in "Von Richthofen and Brown".

Would that be terrain on high then?

Very cool.

I kept shouting at the Dr1 pilots: "Turn the the left you fools!"

At what point where they going to clue in the Camel would have them for breakfast every time carrying around in this fashion. wink

Thanks for the video update.

S!

#2888692 - 10/27/09 10:16 AM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Dantes]  
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I kept shouting at the Dr1 pilots: "Turn the the left you fools!"

Same yes Dantes, the real plane is supposed to naturally climb turning left and dive turning right. That plane was climbing right, looks self-defeating. Maybe that tightens the right-hand turn though?

Ming


'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
#2888727 - 10/27/09 12:15 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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womenfly2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ming_EAF19
I kept shouting at the Dr1 pilots: "Turn the the left you fools!"

Same yes Dantes, the real plane is supposed to naturally climb turning left and dive turning right. That plane was climbing right, looks self-defeating. Maybe that tightens the right-hand turn though?

Ming


She (Dr.1) will stall in a right hand turn with a high nose up. In RL she will drop the nose and the controls feel stiff. In a left hand turn, she will raise the nose slightly and the controls feel loose, but she will not raise her nose as much as the drop in a RH turn. In the LH turn she will turn so tight she will fly through her own prop wash. Believe me.

I am interested in how well the FM is in that, if she will do a flat rudder turn.

Can wait!

Last edited by womenfly2; 10/27/09 12:26 PM.

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#2888733 - 10/27/09 12:28 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: womenfly2]  
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MIG77 Offline
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So in the effect Camel/Dr.1 could out turn each other depending which way you were turning wink I wonder what other planes could outturn Camel to left (IE Fokker D.VII?)?


You can get used to everything, but icicle in the a**. It melts before you get used to it.
#2888744 - 10/27/09 12:45 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: MIG77]  
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Vati Offline
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In real life Dr.I outturned Camel in both L and R turn. In ROF, I predict it will neither smile

#2888746 - 10/27/09 12:58 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Vati]  
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MIG77 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Vati
In real life Dr.I outturned Camel in both L and R turn. In ROF, I predict it will neither smile


And you know this how for sure? Wingloading is better for Camel, but then again Fokker Dr.I has better airfoil for turning... Now what is reported in many accounts is that Camel didnt turn nearly as good to left than to right (my rough quess would be that both turn about same to right and Dr.I better to left).


You can get used to everything, but icicle in the a**. It melts before you get used to it.
#2888751 - 10/27/09 01:11 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: MIG77]  
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Vati Offline
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Aerodynamic analysis and what pilots had said. You think German pilots were idiots with advising right hand turn to evade Camel attack?

L and R difference comes from how pilot needs to handle gyroscopic precession. So when the plane helps you pulling nose around it is of course easier to turn that way than the other.

#2888774 - 10/27/09 02:03 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: Vati]  
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MIG77 Offline
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Finland
Please share those aerodynamic analysis and pilots opinions that Fokker Dr.I was better than Camel turning to right. Im always interested reading such a things.


You can get used to everything, but icicle in the a**. It melts before you get used to it.
#2888777 - 10/27/09 02:26 PM Re: Sopwith Camel Promo Video [Re: MIG77]  
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MattM Offline
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One quote from the Sopwith Camel vs. Fokker Dr.I book:

"Most telling was the fact, tat german pilots were advised to escape an attacking Camel using a right-hand turn - supposedly the Camel's forte, yet one the Dr.1 could perform in a shorter radius that would eventually bring it onto the Camel's trail."

Sadly, there is no source for this mentioned in the book, but then again i never heard anything about the Camel outturning the Dr.I.

Also in the book, the Dr.I is said to not have the "Camel's vicious handling quirks", Ltn. Heinz Graf von Gluszewski-Kwilicki said "the smoothest lovely ship i could fly after the Pfalz and Albatros".

Even the Camel with the weakest engine is said to be faster than the Dr.I, even with the Dr.I engine working at full efficiency.

Climb rates were about the same for the 130 HP engine modelled ingame, with stronger engine, the Camel did climb better, with weaker engine worse than the Dr.I

Like i said, except for the Dr.I handling, there is no source given.

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