Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#2864897 - 09/21/09 11:00 PM SSD worth it for gamers?  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
dashavingo Offline
Member
dashavingo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
Long load times drive me nuts, and they seem to be the one thing that's remained just as slow as ever--- while graphics tech et cetera has grown in leaps and bounds. (I've had a computer since the late 80's).

I'm wondering if SSD will finally mean major progress here. Also, given SSD's (currently) low capacity, would it be best used as an OS partition?

Just wondering what the experts (and some of you guys are) think.

Thanks,

d.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2864930 - 09/22/09 12:30 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Allen Offline
Hotshot
Allen  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Ohio USA
Since I do not own SSD nor have I researched it, I am no expert. But, some things about games indicate that speeding up the disks (hard or solid state) will not do much beyond shortening load times.

Games are designed to not use the OS much and not use disk access in a way that hinders FPS. So, any speedup in data transfer due to SSD is unlikely to have any effect on active game play, I speculate.

It might be worth investigating 15000 RPM hard drives vs SSD for relative speedup, capacity, and performance/price. Still, I expect the noticeable improvement would be in initial load times -- not FPS.

FWIW.


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#2865051 - 09/22/09 04:44 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,946
Brennus Offline
Urban Legend
Brennus  Offline
Urban Legend
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,946
Detroit, MI
Well, I've got some second hand info you may find useful. My brother's been usin' a pair of these and while he loved 'em at first, by the nature of their design, the performance drops considerably over time. It's got somethin' to do w/ fragmentation and the drive becomes much slower over time. Now, this is only supposed to affect the first 2 generations, and from what I understand, this isn't supposed to be an issue w/ the next gen SSD's. You've been warned...


"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here."

- Jayne Cobb, "Firefly"
#2865088 - 09/22/09 07:38 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: Brennus]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
As long as SSD accepts TRIM command (Win7 will use this native) it's not a problem with slowdowns. Any good one you buy today will be free of those issues.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2846496/Should_I_go_SSD_for_my_next_bu.html#Post2846496

We discussed this here at some length since I'm currently in the same boat. I figured out today that I have both the budget for a GTX285 AND the Corsair 128P SSD, so money is no objection to me building the damned fastest rig.

Question is rather life expectancy of the disk. Every Flash Cell can only be rewritten a limited amount of time (about 10.000x for the memory type used in most consumer SSDs). SSDs are designed to move data around so that each cell gets written the same amount, so that for example the windows system files (which never get rewritten) are moved to already "well used" cells and the previous cells are then free for more dynamic files.

So in theory the "wear leveling" should mean that every cell gets used up at about the same time, which by theoretical calculations is good for about 5 years of heavy write/delete usage.

But right now, there just aren't enough long term practical experiences to say for sure how well an SSD will last.

I'm fairly certain it would make for an awesome "fast-feeling" OS however.

#2865128 - 09/22/09 10:06 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
anon
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: dashavingo
Long load times drive me nuts, and they seem to be the one thing that's remained just as slow as ever--- while graphics tech et cetera has grown in leaps and bounds. (I've had a computer since the late 80's).


Problem here is that data transfer has come on in leaps and bounds the same as every other aspect but due to increased demand due to larger files the actual speed of loading hasn't really changed much.

#2865502 - 09/22/09 09:24 PM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: ]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
dashavingo Offline
Member
dashavingo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
Really, really useful and interesting information here fellahs. These boards do not disappoint. Got some real pros around here.

d.

PS> Dano-- well of course--- why the heck didn't your point occur to me? You nailed that one.

#2865632 - 09/23/09 02:03 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 693
Pugio Offline
Member
Pugio  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 693
Deep in the Leng Plateau
As Allen said they won't make much of a difference for games, but if you have ever used a computer with the OS and programs loaded on SSD its quite remarkable in the terms of responsiveness.

And as mentioned above don't buy SSDs that don't have TRIM command (which will be supported in Windows 7 last I heard). The TRIM in theory (and in at least one test I've seen) should prevent the ever decreasing performance issue seen with previous generations of SSD.

#2865749 - 09/23/09 07:33 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: Pugio]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
If anyone is really looking to buy now, the Corsair P128 SSD seems to fit the bill nicely. 128 Meg Write Cache on a much praised Samsung Controller, TRIM and so on.

Win7 also by default recognizes and configures itself for optimum SSD usage.

#2867636 - 09/26/09 08:20 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
dashavingo Offline
Member
dashavingo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
Gentleman:

How exactly does the SSD drive (currently purty low if increased and increasing capacity) interact with the standard hard drives (or in my case, the RAID 0 array I'm planning). Can it reduce load times for either the OS and/or applications?

I'm what you'd call a lay man (no jokes--- I mean I'm not an IT Pro) with a reasonable tech quotient. I'll explain why I'm mentioning this below. Yepper, I've got purty high tech quotient.

Except compared to the experts that frequent these boards!

I'm only stating the above to let you know that, while I don't stay real current with current hardware until it comes time to upgrade (read: build new system--- my sixth! Although I may hand this off to Cyberpower this time). Feel free to answer the above question pretty directly. This isn't my ego talking (the pros on these boards keep that well in check), it's just to... Well, allow you all to respond without feeling your working a desk at AOL tech support. I am (basically) familiar with the new TRIM standard and glad to learn from RSCOLONEL that Win7 looks to offer good support for SSD drives. (And I'll check out that Corsair drive!)

Anyway, I do truly APPRECIATE the great info I get here fellahs! Your input has been indispensable in making the right hardware choices in the past--- and I've been hitting SimHQ and these boards for a good 10 years now.

So, now that you have my life story, my basic questions again are:

How exactly is the SSD drive (currently purty low capacity) best used?

How does it interact with the standard hard drives?

Can it reduce load times for either the OS and/or applications?

With consideration to the above, and with SSD technology beginning to take off, is it worth buying the base system now and the SSD drive later? My criteria is how much of a headache this would be to later configure.

Thanks again.

d.

#2867637 - 09/26/09 08:22 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
dashavingo Offline
Member
dashavingo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
PS> Pugio, Mr Anand from Anand tech echoed your point--- that I'd be crazy to get an SSD w/o the Trim Command! Will be sure to avoid this mistake!

#2867638 - 09/26/09 08:27 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
dashavingo Offline
Member
dashavingo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
Last statement I swear!

Shortening the OS load time (even if games load times are unaffected) is enough reason for me to get an SSD! Especially if Win 7 has anything like that load times of good ol' VISTA. No fun.

#2867671 - 09/26/09 12:14 PM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
Put the OS, Applications and games on the SSD, you will have really nice load times. Anything else you want to open fast, put it also there. For games that load data during play (like Stalker, Fallout3...) it might also slightly smoothen the experience, but unlikely that you will see faster framerates.

Still, given the load times of games and some apps here, I'm going to enjoy it. BTW, I was recommended the Patriot Torqx 128GB instead of the Corsair P128 - it seems for the Samsung Controller in the later it's hard to get firmware updates, and the Patriot has a 10! year manufacturer warranty which kind of helps to ease the mind about writecycle limits.

#2867969 - 09/26/09 10:51 PM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: RSColonel_131st]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
dashavingo Offline
Member
dashavingo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 998
RSCOLONEL:

Anything that makes a solid dent (and this technology has the potential for more than that!) has my vote.

I'll check out the Patriot entry. A 10 year warranty--- wow. I doubt there's even a hard disk maker that would go that far out (although with the velocity of innovation on SSD tech, we'll all have 6 terrabyte SSD boards by then!).

Cheers,

d.

#2868142 - 09/27/09 11:21 AM Re: SSD worth it for gamers? [Re: dashavingo]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,138
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
I think the ten year warranty is simple their way of telling us that they trust their calculations as far as the 10.000 rewrite limit goes.

Of course warranty doesn't absolve one from making decent backups anyway, but at least the investment into the drive is safe, whereas with a Corsair you might find yourself having to pay for a new one in 26 months.

And besides, the really nice thing about SSDs is that if they reach their write limit, they should (in theory) become read-only but still fully accessible for data recovery.


Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0