No not the same, sorry. It is not a high Ob approach into a short field. What you show is a constant descending approach.

High Ob approach is a typical approach for us (me) tail-daggers, always good to practice all the time, high Ob short field approaches. One needs to be one with the plane, know what it will and will not do. I did it so it can be done, someone else may not be able to.

Also any slip causes partial obscuration of airflow to any empenage which may causes light buffeting. The trick to learn is how far to go.

Yep, that's a pilot that will be dangerous in any airplane.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Iceman-The-Later-Years-SNL

I've been flying some 172's recently with a friend who is a flight instructor. He always tells me not to slip them since he knows I slip my 150 all the time. Once we were coming in too high, so instead of slipping I just pointed the nose down and picked up speed then zoomed along in ground effect. It was a huge runway so it didn't matter. I think he would have rather me slipped it in, as before I leveled off I actually saw his hands headed toward the yoke.

I don't think you are supposed to slip c150's with full flaps, but I have mine. It sure comes down fast with 40 degrees of flaps and a big slip. Could come in handy if you needed to get down fast.

My primary instructor was great. He taught slips and spins. On the commercial rating they don't even have you do real stalls. You get the horn and recover.

I'm glad I didn't do my training through a university. They don't do anything to help promote the love of flying. Also I'm sure I wouldn't have solo'd at 6 hours or finished my private ticket in 45 days. That 6 hours was also split between three airplanes. A Cherokee 140, Cessna 150, and a Taylorcraft.

There is a placard placed on the panel of many Cessna designs which says "Slips with flaps not recommended". This is little more than a CYA to make Cessna's lawyers happy as a result of learning that a few variants of the aircraft would sometimes develop an oscillatory porpoise when more than 30 degrees of flaps is used along with a deep slip. Most Cessna designs will not do this to any extent worth worrying about, however in those that do, the nose dropping as the tail is shielded is enough for them to placard the airplane. Even in those particular cases that this does happen, all it takes to "recover" is to simply ease some of the cross controlled inputs out.

It does not say slips with flaps are prohibited, and if you extend full flaps, and try the maneuver (at altitude with a CFI that knows about the *real* issue here) you will see there probably isn't much issue. That said, MANY CFIs will mistakenly suggest that slips with flaps are prohibited in the Cessnas, and many owners/operators will even install a screw stop in the flap actuator lever to limit travel to 30 degrees in order to remove the placard! It's all really pretty ridiculous. . .and really just another example of people being trained to the lowest possible level by CFIs who were as well.

and by "high obstacle approach" you probably mean 50ft obstacle? Now, I would say
CFI who would asks during BFR to show power off 180, from 400 AGL, to clear 50ft obstacle has some judgment issues..

No doubt that every pilot must know his/her airplane. The only tail dagger time I have are on Citabria, Decathlon and SNJ-4. In my opinion you wont be able to clear 50ft obstacle during power off 180 from 400agl in SNJ-4. So not all tail draggers built the same..


Good luck with your flying womenfly2

You are right about Cessna 172 40 degrees flaps issue. Unfortunately many CFI's today
come out from "mass production factories". So fast does not necessary means good IMHO.

By the way, here is a plane I built and test flew. Pietenpol Air Camper with Ford Model-A engine.

This piqued my curiosity, as I thought I would have noticed it but had not.

I went back to the simulator and tried slipping the D.Va and the N28. I found that both could be slipped with full rudder travel with no worries. It was only when approaching the stall that I found I ran out of aileron authority to counteract the yaw-roll coupling. In fact, these two aircraft can be slipped in to land with e g full left rudder and full right aileron, controlling bank angle with airspeed through the elevator.

Going to try the other aircraft in my install eventually, but to make the chase shorter: Which aircraft did you find to exhibit this troublesome characteristic?

I'm not so certain it is necessarily a FM bug/problem either. I've consistently come across comments about the slightly odd (by modern standards) control harmonisation of these old crates. It would seem ineffective ailerons and strong yaw-roll coupling forced pilots to use the rudder heavily in order to get them banked around with any kind of speed. In the light of this, running out of aileron authority earlier than one might expect would not seem all that out of place.

OT edit: As for slipping the C172 with full (40 degrees) of flaps - I would check the POH carefully. I've heard of some models partially stalling the elevator, with an abrupt nose-down as result. Bad news on short final. There are many kinds of C172s, so what's fine in one may not be in another. Ours are, sadly to this downgraded glider pilot, limited to 30 degrees. Wikipedia, as always a reliable source of probably almost correct information, claims this was made to allow a gross weight increase though, in which case it is fine by me. Weight is more of a limit in that bird than maximum approach angle anyway!

The mere suspicion of susceptibility to blanketing of control surfaces means I'm not likely to use heavy sideslipping anyway, in normal operations. You never know if you're e g carrying ice back there or if the airframe has been bent somewhere down the line since leaving the factory, and what that will do to the handling. Short final is the wrong place to find out.

Cheers,
Fred

Hello,

hehe when you mentioned the Pietenpol back then i had to download a free version for FS9, and vitually fly it. Nice plane, has all the attributes of the early crates, and i guess you really learn to fly it by feeling every little shudder, misfiring, and dust particle on the runway lol.
B.t.w. a lot of nice videos about various Pietenpols at YouTube.

Greetings,
Catfish

I flown C-172N, unless you do cross control stall on final your are pretty much fine doing forward slip with 40 degrees flaps

Nice picture. Shame it's black in white in our digital age !

Better ...

My comment isn't that there is a loss of aileron authority near and post-stall (as would be expected) or that you can't use full rudder. . .it's that the slip angle and the bank angles which can be maintained are shallower than I'd expect.

These planes fly not on air, but on 0's & 1's.

Exactly to the point Womenfly2... But if the illusion of reality is so well-crafted by RoF that some forget it, then that is a good thing, isn't it?

I love Pietenpol's. I like how many different engines have been stuck on the front of them. If I built one I think I would put a Chevy Corvair engine on it.

How much horsepower did you get out of the old Ford engine?

When I was up at Oshkosh this year, I saw one with a 110hp radial engine mounted on the front.

Pretty dang good design. Originally designed in what 1929? Still being made and flown.

Much better! Did you restore it or build a replica?

Looks like a fun aircraft. Lots of character.

RD.

I built it from the plans in the 1929 Flying and Glider manual purchased from the EAA. Did all the woodwork, metal work, welding right thru paint all myself. Even test flew her for her very first flight and she was tail-heavy! But she would also hang on the prop like a D.vII.

The Model-A with the 4 mod's I did put out 59HP and she will throw a 84" dia x 43" pitch prop with a blade width of 7". All this at 1800 RPM. She flies like balancing a base-ball bat on the end of your finger.

Just like a WW-1 plane. Gets hot in back of the radiator and had a leak once, one quickly finds out its not a great place for it!

Fun ..... that's and understatement!

Yes yes that's all very well .... but where do you store the stilleto's, compact and whip ?