In all honesty, when I saw the new in game footage, I was taken aback. Flame if you must, but it really looks bad at 1st blush, especially the footage they used compared to the previously released trailer. One of the big compromises in a good chopper sim is the number of trees -vs- complexity of the trees (or objects).

I looked at the video a few times, and the stills also, the main thing that seems to be the biggest detraction is the extremely low resolutions of the ground textures. Is this a limitation of the graphics engine? These things concern me because US sales will suffer badly if there isnt enough 'eye candy'. Most everyone here (I would guess) is enough of an enthusiast to realize that:

a) graphics only need be good enough. Spectacular graphics are only really important for the initial "WOW", after that, you don't even notice as long as the graphics don't hinder gameplay.

b)Smooth framerate is much more important than a bunch of extra bling.

c) We hardly ever get a good copter sim, and if this thing has a good flight model and is stable, you would be remiss if you did anything much short of cheating on your wife with it.

I think graphics have to reach a certain standard but immersion depends on so many other things for me. I want tactical gameplay, sound AI, a high-fidelity flight model and great audio. Good MP code and functionality is key, too. I'll happily forgive a less than state-of-the-art graphics implementation, just as I did in the reincarnated Falcon. I do not want a heli-borne shooting gallery, I want to earn my kills. Here are some tactical games with outdated graphics that, for me, have great playability:

FALCON AF
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (okay, okay, semi-tactical)
THE REGIMENT
ARMED ASSAULT

And here's one with gorgeous graphics but broken playability to the point where it might kill the franchise (check out the petition on Subsim.com):

SILENT HUNTER IV

In general the more eye-candy there is, the less emphasis on tactical gameplay because the target audience is consoles. Sometimes, great tac-shooters are all but ruined by the presure to provide state-of-the-art visuals such as the recent contributions to the SPLINTER CELL and RAINBOW SIX series.

I'm happy to sacrifice photorealistic visuals for immersion via well-modelled simulation and solid gameplay. If that's the developer's priority, too, let's all buy this thing and support it!

...Unless it's FUBAR, that is. Difficult to tell how well-supported this will be or how moddable.

I don't mind if the graphics are dated. What I find unnacceptable though is if the graphics are dated and performance is crappy, there's nothing like playing an combat sim with cruddy graphics at 18fps to kill immersion.

If they're at least as good as EECH with all the community mods and things like FLIR or randomly looking in a certain direction don't take me from a rock silid 60fps down to 10 like in EECH then you won't hear me complaining.

I think many of us (I count myself here as well) are spoiled by the incedible visuals of Lomac. But while I really want the graphics to be awesome, if I'm busy in the sim then it's not such a big deal. The graphics are dated, true; but they are still an improvment over the old EECH. Given how great EECH is, that just makes it better for me.

External graphics aren't that important. However, interior graphics and especially HUD/MFD etc functionality are VERY important.
Textured MFD is a must; just compare falcon:AF with some other release.

Eye candy doesn't do much when the functionality sucks, like in lock-on. Clickable pit or at least a key for every pit switch/function is very important; I do not want to use "gamey" keys. And btw, on the eye candy note: though lock-on is a beauty, MFD graphics suck in it. Draw distance is WAY too small.
Posted pit shots do not look too convincing... :/

I think I can speak for a lot of people in here....

We all know what we are really gonna get out of EECH2 - most of us already have it and it's called EECH Enemy Engaged. The modders have done a great job with their tweaks and modifications which enhanced the graphics by quite a margin and helped many people finally get online even though it is not the easiest game to setup.

EECH2 is simply going back several months in the modding structure and hopefully providing us with a game that has stable multiplayer/network gaming and other various small fixes that will make the overall game gel together and become a better EECH Enemy Engaged. I don't think anyone in here is expecting a 'new' game but simply an 'enhanced' game. To that end, I think only a small minority are looking for the eye candy.

I'm in the minority then. I wish I had time to get lost in the nitty gritty detail of flight dynamics and avionics, but alas I just about manage a quick fix now and then. But there's another aspect to eye candy in helicopter sims. When you're flying low over a blurry mush, it's very difficult to judge your height above the ground without making intimate contact with it. The high resolution bump-mapped textures may go a long way to helping this and that should make the flying experience more realistic.

I would put the priority of better campaigns and fixes to flight models etc long before multiplayer.

I am a graphics guy as well. A high level of systems fidelity and whatnot is great, but if you don't get the "looks" as well, it is tough for me to feel immersed in the experience.

That being said, I do like what I have seen of the graphics in EECH2. There are a few things I would change/add in, but without playing the finished product I can't really pass judgment.

No, it's does not matter to me. My ultimate flightsim is an army's flightsim.



I don't care much for great graphics, only for realistic gameplay. For example, smoke should block your vision. A blocked vision by smoke alters the gameplay. That's why I think smoke should be in the game, but I don't care about how great it is.

Ive purchased EECH2 mainly for a stable user friendly multiplay component, and because EECH2 could be the base platform for future mods.

If your not into multiplay, then the current benchmark sims LB2 and EECH will still go the distance for graphics i guess.

I want the best graphics possible, it really enhances immersion for me. much more than complex startup procedures or correct hellfire trajectories and that sort of stuff. I want a game to be complex and beautiful, and don't care much about realism. Else I wouldn't play oblivion ...

I look at graphics in games on a case-by-case basis...

I play MSFS 2002/2004 full-graphics high-res because to me, enjoying the landscape and sky is mostly what MSFS is about. Besides learning to fly and operate complicated GPS systems, it's all about the scenery. If FS9 had the same graphics as say...EF2000 (640x400 non-accelerated), I'd never play it.

OTOH, I play EF2000 more than just about any other game, the low-res graphics don't matter to me so much with this game.

I like what I'm seeing with EECH2, though. And I admit while not crucial, I'd love to have those graphics in my retro sims.
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Mark

For me it matter but I will play it anyway if it's as good as the EECH1

I'll see your preference and raise you....Both! Everything!!

I want both improved graphics AND realism. But also MP stability with flexibility (co-op for all mission types - at least campaign and single missions) is a must. And I want modabilty to be powerful and simple, so I can (selfishly?) enjoy the fruits of those who are so talented and dedicated in improving whatever is commercially released, so that the sim enjoys an indefinitely long life time. Staying fresh and permitting lots of us to fully delve into, learn, and enjoy what the creators put into the sim.

As for possible commercial concerns about long life equaling vanishing sales in the future - I enjoy an aged fine wine, but not just ONE vineyard or varietal! And I buy new ones as well. New in no way crowds out old. Same with finely crafted sims and other games. I'll buy each new sim that comes close to my preferences - but still fly Longbow 2, the immortal Falcon 4, Jane's F-18, drive an SB 1 tank, and blow things up with friends in original Ghost Recon and Operation Flashpoint.

No sim can be absolutely perfect, but I appreciate and support designers and publishers that try and surpass the bar set by earlier creators. They stand on the shoulders of giants, in order to reach even higher.

Then you should be looking for an action game like Comanche not a simulator.

With regards to what makes somebody feel "immersed", for some people graphics are paramount, for others it's systems fidelity, and for some it is a mix of both.

What makes him feel immersed in a game is a personal choice.

I personally prefer both aspects if possible.

Being under water makes me feel immersed. That's pretty much it.



The Jedi Master

?? graphics have nothing to do with simulator or not. let me put it this way, realism of landscape graphics are more important than realism in chopper operation for me. What is the use of a correct hellfire behaviour and then flying in some ugly artificial landscape where everything looks the same no matter where you are in the world? That's why I put so much work in enabling landscape textures in eech. And I liked comanche 3 btw.

Hey Im not putting down Comance 3.It had entertainment value.But it was an "action" game.Just wish the flight model and avionics had been a bit better is all.