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#2610803 - 11/04/08 07:05 PM Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive?  
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Mysticpuma2003 Offline
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Having been an X-52 user for a couple of years, and using the twist Rudder in the stick, I have now acquired (for just £15!!), the Saitek Rudder Pedals.

Now, the first thing I did was lock off the twist rudder on the X-52 (to stop me going back to it), but blimey! What a learning curve.

I remember getting the hang of Track IR, and once done, that is really intuitive...but Rudder Pedals. It reminds me of that thing where you tap your head with one hand and make a circle with your other over the stomach...takes time, but you get the hang of it.

Currently my difficulty is sliding the left pedal forward makes the plane turn left, which I know sounds obvious, but if you transpose that with a twist rudder, moving the left side forward (by twisting the stick to the right) makes the plane go right...it's just a bit alien at the moment.

So, how long does it take until you get the feel for it?

Cheers, MP.

Last edited by Mysticpuma2003; 11/04/08 07:06 PM.

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#2610871 - 11/04/08 09:05 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Mysticpuma2003]  
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Flying Hedman Offline
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It varies from person to person, myself took about 2-3 week before getting out of twisting my stick and to naturally use my feet came gradually meanwhile but it wasn´t natural before a few weeks more!
Take your time! Depends on how much you practice!

#2610872 - 11/04/08 09:05 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Mysticpuma2003]  
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smoker Offline
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MP - I got mine early last spring (maybe Feb) and I was utterly crap for a good 6 months.

I knew I'd finally converted when I instinctively used the rudders pedals to avoid stalling a wing on a carrier take-off in the late summer!

Keep with it!

56RAF_phoenix aka smoker aka phoenix1963

#2610881 - 11/04/08 09:18 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: smoker]  
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smoker Offline
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MP - Also set the mapping of pedal movement to rudder movement very, very low until you get near maximum pedal displacement using il2sticks or equivalent, that makes it easier to use small movements on 'planes that have no rudder trim.

You'll like taking-off with pedals, you really need virtually no stick input at all, just the rudders to keep straight - more like RL. The independence of the axis makes take-off so much easier.

56RAF_phoenix aka smoker aka phoenix1963

#2610915 - 11/04/08 10:24 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: smoker]  
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A long time ... When I first got them it seemed more intuitive with the left and right pedals transposed! I'm still learning - it's natural 80% of the time - especially on take off and for side slipping when landing but in a tense dogfight I still some times forget to use the rudder.

RedToo.


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#2610934 - 11/04/08 10:58 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: RedToo]  
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Ivan Putski Offline
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Only took me a couple of days to work out my pedals, I use my prosthesis with the Saitek pedals I bought, they are better suited to the task than the CH ones I had. Using my left upper thigh muscles, I `m able to manipulate them quite well. Now I know how Bader dealt with the rudder. Puts thumbsup


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#2610964 - 11/05/08 12:17 AM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Ivan Putski]  
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Kamikuza Offline
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Think of it this way - imagine you're sitting on the floor with your knees up, if you push forwards & straighten your left leg you'll fall over to the left, yeah? wink same way as the plane would bank.
Or simply watch the ball thingy and stand on that ...

Wow! Ivan ... how did you manage to half-Baderize yourself? frown


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#2610990 - 11/05/08 12:41 AM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Kamikuza]  
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Started way back in Nam 1967, on my second tour got hit in both legs, a lot of damage was done, muscles, arteries etc. I recovered nicely, but the years took there toll. Had a lot of probs with my arteries,eventually bypass surgery, them I broke all the toes in my left foot, and they had to be removed, I was`nt getting the proper blood flow to the leg, area around the amputated toes would`nt heal. After the 13th surgery, I had made my mind up in 2005 to have the leg amputated, and move on with life. I guess you could say it was 38 years in the making. Puts smile


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#2611009 - 11/05/08 01:42 AM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Ivan Putski]  
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Jeez wayne ... some intersting stories some of us have in here! S!


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#2611167 - 11/05/08 08:27 AM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Kamikuza]  
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It took me about a month, but I'd only be playing with twist stick/rockers for a year. Now I can change from one to the other without any issues at all, so i'ts just familiarity in the end, as always.

#2611180 - 11/05/08 09:21 AM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: tagTaken2]  
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I guess it's just a matter of creating new reflexes, like riding a bike.. Some learn some things faster than others, and then it's the other way around for other type of mechanical memory..

I tried pedals just briefly and then ruled it out.. for the moment. But I do believe there are a lot of pros with using pedals, so I guess I should look out for some nice pedals to purchase as I seem to have gotten stuck to this game!


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#2611205 - 11/05/08 12:00 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: smoker]  
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Mysticpuma2003 Offline
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Originally Posted By: smoker
MP - Also set the mapping of pedal movement to rudder movement very, very low until you get near maximum pedal displacement using il2sticks or equivalent, that makes it easier to use small movements on 'planes that have no rudder trim.
56RAF_phoenix aka smoker aka phoenix1963


Could you explain a little more on the mapping please?

Is that like the Flight stick input, so that the rudder should go 10,15,20,25,35,50,65,85,93,100 something like that?

Glad it's not just me. I guess if you fly real-life it would be a lot easier, but I know with practise I'll get it...along with strong abs and tight thighs wink

Cheers, MP.


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#2611222 - 11/05/08 12:52 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Mysticpuma2003]  
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I'm considering finally buying some rudder pedals. Either the Saitek Pro or the CH Pro set. The Saitek is ~100€, the CH ~150€. Any recommendations?


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#2611233 - 11/05/08 01:09 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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Two or three weeks for me. "Step on the ball."


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#2611252 - 11/05/08 01:35 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: R0NNC0]  
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Couple of weeks I'd say. Maybe it was easier for me 'cos I was coming from the unholy rocker that the X45 used ( probably its only shortcoming thumbsup )

It's great getting the ability to obtain tiny increments of rudder input - a twist stick is never so precise. As with TIR, you'll never look back...


"Another glass of your loathsome, vaguely beerish frozen swill, if you please."
#2611328 - 11/05/08 03:35 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Para_Bellum]  
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Mysticpuma2003 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Para_Bellum
I'm considering finally buying some rudder pedals. Either the Saitek Pro or the CH Pro set. The Saitek is ~100€, the CH ~150€. Any recommendations?


Got to say the Saitek's (I haven't tried the CH), seem really sturdy, with a good weight to them. I have size 13 UK (14 US) feet and the adjustable pedal size fits a treat.

Plugged them in, and windows (Vista 64 bit) loaded the driver. I then updated them through windows and all is working well.

I did, as I said, get an amazing bargain. I went into CEX in Merry Hill, Dudley, and there were the Rudder pedals (as new, I mean no marks at-all!!), for £15....which left a trail of smoke to the counter and me leaving witha great big smile on my face wink

I look forward to making the most of them, and I'm sure over the next few weeks it'll get much easier, but for £15 I just had to go for it!

Cheers, MP.


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#2611648 - 11/05/08 11:56 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Mysticpuma2003]  
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Kamikuza Offline
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Jeez Puma I thought I had it bad - size 13US feet hahaha had real issues buying new shoes when we were in the UK this year - everything seems to stop at around 11UK frown and in Japan, the seldom has even that ...

I started using my MS Wheel pedals as rudder for a while and they worked great. Mapping really helps smile it's too twitchy otherwise!


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#2613317 - 11/08/08 02:00 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: Mysticpuma2003]  
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smoker Offline
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Sorry for the slow reply MP, I THINK this is my mapping:
1RZ1=0 1 9 15 16 18 20 28 46 70 100 0

Remember, the controller ID could be different for you.

I recommend il2sticks as a more intuitive way of adjusting it.

phoenix

Originally Posted By: Mysticpuma2003
Originally Posted By: smoker
MP - Also set the mapping of pedal movement to rudder movement very, very low until you get near maximum pedal displacement using il2sticks or equivalent, that makes it easier to use small movements on 'planes that have no rudder trim.
56RAF_phoenix aka smoker aka phoenix1963


Could you explain a little more on the mapping please?

Is that like the Flight stick input, so that the rudder should go 10,15,20,25,35,50,65,85,93,100 something like that?

Glad it's not just me. I guess if you fly real-life it would be a lot easier, but I know with practise I'll get it...along with strong abs and tight thighs wink

Cheers, MP.

#2618117 - 11/16/08 04:51 PM Re: Seriously. How long before Rudder Pedals become intuitive? [Re: smoker]  
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Hey Puma.. consider taking your X-52's twist rudder and banding it so that it can act as a switch for rudder trim. If you use the profiling software to set that axis up as a banded switch say at 15/70/15 with the 70% center being a null zone and the 15% on either end being set for Rudder Trim L & R. The thing with rudder trim is that it changes on the fly and the best way to use it is to use the balls or needles in the cockpit that are for that purpose. If you used the twist rudder axis for trim it would always revert back to center, which might not be good depending on the plane you are flying.. but if you converted the axis into a banded switch with say a slight delay according to your taste.. If you are not sure how to band an axis here is a brief tutorial:

I have the rudder rocker on my X-45 banded as a switch for my flaps. You can do the same thing for rudder trim if you have pedals. Once you band it, assign the ends to what ever key press you have set for Rudder trim left and rudder trim right. No need for rudder trim neutral since you can use the ball to determine where your trim needs to be.
Banding an axis is easy..

First highlight the axis you want to band.




Next R click and select bands instead of the default axis. You will see a screen like this.




Place your mouse cursor on the red line and move it up or down... notice that the Rudder xx-xx%= lines will change value as you move the cursor. This is how you determine the percentage of the bands you are creating. On the example above I have a 30-40-30 split. Note that when you are making these splits for a two switch situation as in rudder trim L or Rudder trim R, or in my case flaps> flaps< the end percentages are where you will put the keypress settings.. the center position will be your null zone. I have since changed mine to 20-60-20 split making a larger null zone and giving me more isolation for my key presses.




Once you assign the key press, when you go to the axis and move it beyond the 60 or whatever % null zone you have set it will perform whatever function you have assigned .. The nice thing about using a rocker like switch is that since the rocker centers it is always in the null zone.




Note that these pictures are done using the older SST software. On the new software it is even easier. Just highlight the axis in question and hit the arrow on the upper right corner and select Bands. Once you do that you will see a box on the left with a red line going through it. just go to that line and move it up or down to the percentages you want.

By using the banded switch method for rudder trim on your stick it will wind up working out very intuitively. If you set the delay to a comfortable level it will be one less thing that you will have to remove your hands from the stick for and it will open up a pot on your throttle.


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.

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