Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#2598357 - 10/03/08 12:06 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: letterboy1]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
shan2 Offline
Veteran
shan2  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
Maryland, USA
How do you know it wasn't the Queen Mother? \:D


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2598361 - 10/03/08 12:19 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: ]  
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 113,919
PanzerMeyer Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
PanzerMeyer  Offline
Pro-Consul of Florida
King Crimson - SimHQ's Top Poster

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 113,919
Miami, FL USA
 Originally Posted By: Benny Moore
That's the most retarded thing I've heard all day.


And why is that? The title simply said "10 Weapons that changed the world". There was no time frame specified.

@ All - Oh dear, sorry guys about starting an unexpected samurai vs. knight debate. It's been lots of fun to read though so far. \:D

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/03/08 12:24 PM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#2598424 - 10/03/08 01:55 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: letterboy1]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 40,112
20mm Offline
Site Emeritus
Honorary Forums Manager
20mm  Offline
Site Emeritus
Honorary Forums Manager
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 40,112
Tucson AZ
 Originally Posted By: letterboy1
I see Philip's Fart is not on the list.


That would be the fart heard round the world.

-----------
Watch for new SimHQ feature announcements in October!


Pat Tillman (1976-2004):
4 years Arizona State University, graduated with high honors.
5 seasons National Football League player, Arizona Cardinals.
Forever United States Army Ranger.
#2598434 - 10/03/08 02:04 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: shan2]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 22,392
letterboy1 Offline
(Heterosexual)Tchaikovsky Ballet Fan
letterboy1  Offline
(Heterosexual)Tchaikovsky Ballet Fan
Lifer

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 22,392
Columbus, GA USA
 Originally Posted By: shan2
How do you know it wasn't the Queen Mother? \:D


I actually voted for her on the official thread. \:\)


The issue is not p*ssy. The issue is monkey.
#2598441 - 10/03/08 02:08 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: similan]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,868
Duchess Offline
(Formerly Joe Stallin')
Duchess  Offline
(Formerly Joe Stallin')
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,868
Ontariariooo
 Originally Posted By: similan
I always wondered about the katana being touted as the most deadly swords or whatever. Can a 5-foot tall samurai really fend off a hulking 6-foot tall knight?


I don't think knights were 6 feet tall. From all the armour I've seen in person, they were actually very short. When I visited a few medieval castles, I was surprised to be having to stoop to go through doors, I am 6' myself.

#2598457 - 10/03/08 02:29 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Vertigo1]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 459
meep Offline
Member
meep  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 459
The Village
Yea, it's ten weapons that changed the world over the last 60 years. Otherwise, we would see the English Longbow on his list.

#2598569 - 10/03/08 05:19 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Vertigo1]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,363
Freycinet Offline
Veteran
Freycinet  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 13,363
 Originally Posted By: Benny Moore
 Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
There was no mention in there for the samurai katana


That's the most retarded thing I've heard all day.



 Originally Posted By: PV
 Originally Posted By: Vulgarity
Ten human fingers attached to the human brain.

That's the ten weapons that changed the world.


wow, how profound.


Benny and PV, what is it wih you guys? - Try to be a little courteous. Yes, you are actually able to be obnoxious and disagreeable because you are not face to face with the other posters, but do you have to be? And more to the point, why do you have to be?


My Il-2 CoD movie web site: www.flightsimvids.com
#2598608 - 10/03/08 06:10 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
shan2 Offline
Veteran
shan2  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: PanzerMeyer
 Originally Posted By: Benny Moore
That's the most retarded thing I've heard all day.


And why is that? The title simply said "10 Weapons that changed the world". There was no time frame specified.

@ All - Oh dear, sorry guys about starting an unexpected samurai vs. knight debate. It's been lots of fun to read though so far. \:D


Historically, it isn't as if Japan didn't fight against the Dutch and Portugese traders at times. IIRC, the kill ratio wasn't exactly in the favor of the samurai.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#2598610 - 10/03/08 06:11 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: meep]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
shan2 Offline
Veteran
shan2  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: meep
Yea, it's ten weapons that changed the world over the last 60 years. Otherwise, we would see the English Longbow on his list.


It's kind of weird that the carrier battlegroup isn't on the list.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#2598611 - 10/03/08 06:12 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: letterboy1]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,250
531 Ghost Offline
USMC
531 Ghost  Offline
USMC
Veteran

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,250
Elizabeth City NC
 Originally Posted By: letterboy1
 Originally Posted By: shan2
How do you know it wasn't the Queen Mother? \:D


I actually voted for her on the official thread. \:\)


So did I. \:D

But check out #7 on Macks list Honestly, I expected it to be on the list and would've been quite surprised if it hadn't.


Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


#2598617 - 10/03/08 06:18 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: 531 Ghost]  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Benny Moore
Unregistered


The reason why the Japanese katana did not change the world is that the Japanese had almost no contact with the rest of the world while the katana was still a battlefield weapon rather than a ceremonial one. By the time Japan had any significant impact on the world, they were using modern, Western weaponry (such as machine guns, tanks, battleships, and aircraft) and the katana was merely a symbol. Besides that, even back in the time when the katana was a battlefield weapon, it was by no means the primary weapon of the samurai. Bow, then spear, and then sword was the order of importance to them. The katana was the tertiary option to be exercised when the first two had failed. How anyone could suggest with a straight face that the katana had any significant impact on the world, aside from popular culture, is very puzzling.

As for VonBarb's paragraph "regarding the Samurai katana," every word of it is absolutely incorrect, and it has been frequently proven so without any trace of doubt. It is, as already pointed out, a collection of myths which are so wrong, so old, and so oft-repeated that they are very possibly the greatest and most popular misconceptions of all time. They would be hilarious if they were not so prevalent and widely believed amongst those who do not research medieval martial arts. Anyone who has done the slightest of study on Western medieval martial arts knows how silly those fallacies are. I'm not going to even bother pointing out all of the ways in which they are wrong. Aside from them being obvious to those who care about the subject, others in this thread have already pointed out a few of them. The fact that the average knight wearing full plate could actually leap into the saddle from the ground is one of them, as is the fact that European swords of all periods were anything but blunt and heavy. (In fact, the hand-and-a-half sword weighed the same as the katana, and Western one-handers were lighter than the katana.)

On the subject of "knight versus samurai," the samurai's arrows would bounce vainly off of the knight's plate armour, assuming that we are speaking of a high medieval knight in typical harness and not an eleventh-century knight in mail. (Though even then, it is not certain that the arrows would penetrate the armour, as mail is more resistant to most types of arrows than Hollywood would have people believe, or get past the shield.) The knight might have a difficult time catching the samurai due to the greater amount of weight being carried by the knight's horse. In a sword fight on foot, the samurai would have little chance of winning. The katana, like all swords, is incapable of cutting through metal without seriously damaging itself. It is more likely that the blade would break than the plate armour. The knight, on the other hand, would have little difficulty thrusting his sharp blade into the unprotected gaps in the samurai's more sparse armour. Another factor seldom considered is whether or not the knight retained his shield when he dismounted. Unmounted, unless the samurai was very lucky, or significantly more experienced than the knight, he would probably lose. Mounted would be a closer fight, as both have spears which could utilize the horse's momentum.

#2598731 - 10/03/08 08:59 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: ]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Goodwood Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Goodwood  Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Detroit - in the Danger Zone!
As far as I know, Benny is largely correct here, even if the language of his initial post was borderline hooligan. I might add that the "armor so heavy it required a crane" myth probably originated with the significantly heavier armor used by knights for the mounted joust. For events like these, though the lances used were blunted with coronals, the more well-off nobles competing often would spend lavishly for that extra protection provided by plate armor that was thicker, and thus heavier, than that used in battle (the obvious reason being that when you know you're going to get hit in a manner that isn't designed to wound, you still want to lessen the impact as much as possible). It should also be mentioned that jousting armor was often crafted in such a way as to deflect incoming lances, meaning that they would only hit the knight sidelong, bouncing off without breaking; this was important because one actually had to break a lance on their opponent in order to score, not just hit them.

Armor of this type was also frequently made as a half-suit, the rest being built or mounted into the saddle of the horse in addition to the splinter guards around the horse's torso and head. This armor, which covered only arms, shoulders, head, and the upper and lower torso, meant that a knight didn't have to walk around in full plate all the time. This type of half armor also typically lacked a true set of backplates. Of course, tournaments weren't always about the mounted joust. Events such as the sword ring (two blokes in armor with blunt swords - best of ten strikes wins), and the long spear on foot (I'm guessing this involves target spearing) were also included - it wouldn't be a surprise if some tournaments included archery as well. For the sword on foot competition, despite the bluntness of the weapons used, it is doubtless that the knights involved would still want the protection of a full suit of whatever armor was the best at the time.

I, too, have seen some suits and half-suits of armor; the DIA (Detroit Institute of Arts) has a pretty nice, if modest, collection of armor and a small number of medieval weapons on display.


LukeFF: Oleg got rid of his moustache! eek

akdavis: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
#2598806 - 10/03/08 11:00 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Goodwood]  
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,421
Vulgarity Offline
Member
Vulgarity  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,421
But Chuck Norris would beat the knight lol....

Seriously though - I do wonder how much of a beating an armored knight would take if they were on the receiving end of a bunch of kicks straight to the head from someone like Bruce Lee.

Bruce Lee was once known to kick a 150 pound bag so hard it bounced off the ceiling. Kicks like that, I'd think even being inside plate armor your head would still be getting somewhat hurt unless they're padded inside like motorcycle helmets.

Actually, even with a motorcycle helmet I'm not sure I'd want to be getting kicked in the head by Bruce Lee!

#2598815 - 10/03/08 11:21 PM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Vulgarity]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
shan2 Offline
Veteran
shan2  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,335
Maryland, USA
They wear padded armor inside that acts as a pretty effective shock absorber. With a padded shield, I have no trouble withstanding people whose kicks output anywhere between 2000-2500 ft-lbs of energy. Any untrained person will *feel* like they've been hit by a car. A belted knight who's been practicing little else but war would not be affected by unarmed striking attacks.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#2598834 - 10/04/08 12:28 AM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: shan2]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Goodwood Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Goodwood  Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Detroit - in the Danger Zone!
Bear in mind too that what made plate armor so great was the way it was forged, with many ripples, nooks and crannies embossed onto every surface. This, IIRC, served to better absorb incoming attacks both from infantry and ranged weapons. This process made the armor much more expensive than the next best thing, which meant that only the richest knights and nobles could afford to have even their personal suits made in this fashion. All armor, combat or tournament, was also well-padded, which sometimes included leather jerkins between the cotton padding and the metal armor itself as added protection.

All in all, I as a medieval strategist would have preferred a larger force of well-trained soldiers with good armor to a smaller unit of expertly-trained knights with the best armor plate available.


LukeFF: Oleg got rid of his moustache! eek

akdavis: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
#2598864 - 10/04/08 02:09 AM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Goodwood]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,396
VonBarb. Offline
Earth-bound misfit
VonBarb.  Offline
Earth-bound misfit
Hotshot

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,396
The Dust,Pandora
Oh well...

Cheers

Nico


"Et s'il ne pleure personne, que Dieu nous le pardonne "

ArmA2/OA - RoF - FSX

ASUS P8P67 Pro Motherboard - Intel i5 2500K @ 3.3Ghz - 8Gb G-Skill DDR3 1866Mhz - Gainward GTX660 Ti Phantom II - Win7 Ultimate 64bits - Saitek av8r
#2598875 - 10/04/08 02:28 AM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Vulgarity]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 693
similan Offline
Member
similan  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 693
Phuket Island
 Originally Posted By: Vulgarity
But Chuck Norris would beat the knight lol....

Seriously though - I do wonder how much of a beating an armored knight would take if they were on the receiving end of a bunch of kicks straight to the head from someone like Bruce Lee.

Bruce Lee was once known to kick a 150 pound bag so hard it bounced off the ceiling. Kicks like that, I'd think even being inside plate armor your head would still be getting somewhat hurt unless they're padded inside like motorcycle helmets.

Actually, even with a motorcycle helmet I'm not sure I'd want to be getting kicked in the head by Bruce Lee!


I seriously hope ur joking. If not...

A very little known fact concerning the master Bruce Lee and his visit to Thailand to watch a very little known sport, then, outside of the country called muay thai. Now, it did take a while, the arena was packed, but he was eventually made, and soon every promoter in the house was on him to get the master in the ring with a famous Thai champion. Well it didn't happen but I think you know what I'm getting at.

I know, even today, he has legions of fans all over the world, and I'm not saying Bruce Lee wasn't a master at what he did. But after reading that article, in a very well-respected muay thai magazine written by a journalist who was there, I think Bruce left the arena that night with a bitter sense of realization that he was just an entertainer.

Last edited by similan; 10/04/08 02:31 AM.
#2598886 - 10/04/08 02:58 AM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: similan]  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
JESC
Unregistered


Indeed, Bruce Lee grew up in a troupe, consisting of his family. However, I'll have to point out that Bruce Lee got into real fights in his time. (No, i'm not going to the wingchun duel about him teaching martial arts to westerners )

There was this account during the filming of (enter the dragon?) where a stuntman kept on cursing Bruce Lee that all his antics were just that... for entertainment. In the end Bruce Lee was forced to fight him and as you can expect... the fight was over in a few seconds.

Even Jackie Chan got some serious fights in his childhood. I remember him recounting a fight he had where after the punches exchanged, he saw a bone protruding from his fist. As he ran, he tried to push it in. After some time he realized that it wasn't his bone, but the teeth of the foe he punched in the mouth.

These people got into street fights in Hong Kong.

I know nothing of the account about Lee and Muai Thai. But I wouldn't be surprised if he backed out. I'm currently building up my physique with Jet Kune Do foundation techniques. And one thing I've read over and over again is that Bruce Lee had an insight to his advantages and weaknesses in an incoming fight. If he knew he was not on par then that makes sense.

I'm tempted to blabber on and on... but I think I'll just end it here for now...

#2598887 - 10/04/08 02:58 AM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: similan]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Goodwood Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Goodwood  Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Detroit - in the Danger Zone!
Anyway, here's my list of ten weapons that changed the world (in no particular order)

#1. Bow and arrow (ancient design)
#2. Gladius (sword)
#3. Medieval siege weaponry (particularly the trebuchet)
#4. Matchlock weapon (first practical mass-produced small arm)
#5. Gunpowder artillery (particularly naval artillery)
#6. Rifled, breech-loading long arm firing an all-in-one cartridge (Henry repeater)
#7. The machine gun (Maxim, Hotchkiss, Vickers, etc.)
#8. The airplane (Fokker Eindekker E.I)
#9. The assault rifle (Shturmgewher 44/AK-47)
#10. Atomic-based weaponry (fission bomb, fusion bomb, thermonuclear device, etc.)

The 11th weapon will, of course, be the first viable laser rifle. Currently under development by any sane military R&D office.

I thought about attempting to squeeze guided munitions into the list somewhere, but everyone who has ever played a "conquer the world"-type RTS knows that airstrikes and air combat alone does not a successful military campaign make. Boots on the ground in sufficient numbers are what wins battles, and therefore, wars, and they have to be armed with the kind of world-changing weaponry that this list represents.


LukeFF: Oleg got rid of his moustache! eek

akdavis: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
#2598891 - 10/04/08 03:16 AM Re: 10 weapons that changed the world... [Re: Goodwood]  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,396
VonBarb. Offline
Earth-bound misfit
VonBarb.  Offline
Earth-bound misfit
Hotshot

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,396
The Dust,Pandora
#11 : The pen

Cheers

Nico


"Et s'il ne pleure personne, que Dieu nous le pardonne "

ArmA2/OA - RoF - FSX

ASUS P8P67 Pro Motherboard - Intel i5 2500K @ 3.3Ghz - 8Gb G-Skill DDR3 1866Mhz - Gainward GTX660 Ti Phantom II - Win7 Ultimate 64bits - Saitek av8r
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
I'll be damned !!
by NoFlyBoy. 05/11/21 07:13 PM
RM Jet Suit Boarding
by Red2112. 05/08/21 02:07 PM
Idiot for the day
by rwatson. 05/07/21 10:55 AM
The cost of Epic free games
by Blade_RJ. 05/06/21 08:28 PM
That mettalic smell you feel is actually yours !
by Blade_RJ. 05/06/21 05:15 PM
Shiny American Rocket, cheaper by the dozen
by Nixer. 05/06/21 12:48 AM
House of the Dragon
by PanzerMeyer. 05/05/21 05:45 PM
Some funny Facebook observations
by PanzerMeyer. 05/05/21 11:53 AM
Chinese Rocket
by carrick58. 05/05/21 12:26 AM
Hope everyone is having a good day
by oldgrognard. 05/04/21 02:09 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0