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#2572151 - 08/21/08 09:53 AM Un official KotS news from Leipzig *****  
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Brigstock Offline
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wingsofhonour.com has some more info from Neoqb about the game. Fresh from Liepzig.

 Quote:
neobq is still searching for a publisher.

  • neobq is still searching for a publisher.
  • It is planned to release a basic version of the simulation with two (?) planes and a large map.
  • More planes will be available as add ons to be bought separately. The planes will cost money only when the player wants to fly them. They are free of charge when flown by the in game AI within missions.
  • An update in the beginning of next year will introduce planes (bombers) with 2 or 3 crew members (pilot, bombardier and gunner).
  • It is planned to have controllable ground units in single player.
  • There will be a mission editor but it will not be published. The developer may charge for additional missions created by them.
  • For online play there will be a publicly available server software capable of holding 128 players per map.
  • There will be no AI controlled ground units in multi player.
  • There will be a simple interface to plan missions, for example escort missions for bombers, in a fast and easy way.
  • With the support of Intel the game engine has been improved to hold around 40 fps during air battles although the flight models and physics are based on dynamic flow calculations. Those calculations will not only apply to the player's aircraft but also on AI controlled aircraft.


I'm still absorbing those bullet points, it is a different approach than a traditional Sim. I don't think I approve of that structure, but I reckon a lot will depend on the pricing structure.

I think this news will cause quite a debate!

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2572152 - 08/21/08 09:55 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Brigstock]  
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Wow thats put a downer on things at first glance.

#2572154 - 08/21/08 10:01 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Speyer]  
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That was my reaction too. But after thinking about it for a little bit I came to the conclusion that it really will depend on the pricing structure. Pitch it right in the right pricing bracket, ie low, and it may not be to painful

Not having access to a FMB is a blow too

Last edited by Brigstock; 08/21/08 10:03 AM.
#2572155 - 08/21/08 10:01 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Brigstock]  
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 Quote:

  • It is planned to release a basic version of the simulation with two (?) planes and a large map.
  • More planes will be available as add ons to be bought separately. The planes will cost money only when the player wants to fly them. They are free of charge when flown by the in game AI within missions.
  • There will be a mission editor but it will not be published. The developer may charge for additional missions created by them.



These would be a mistake, I feel, especially the last - one only has to look at the awesome scope of missions and campaigns developed for IL2 by community members to feel that this would hobble and limit the game and its appeal.


"Another glass of your loathsome, vaguely beerish frozen swill, if you please."
#2572156 - 08/21/08 10:04 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Sturm_Williger]  
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Yep I think having to buy missions will kill the game stone dead.

#2572157 - 08/21/08 10:07 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Sturm_Williger]  
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Even at second glance I still think they will shoot themselves in the foot with this.I don't mind so mush paying for more planes,at a sensible price,but only 2 flyables to start? And a locked mission editor would be a seriously bad mistake.

#2572158 - 08/21/08 10:08 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Speyer]  
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There is a dark cloud moving over this forum, I can feel it already

But we have to remember this is un official and may change

Last edited by Brigstock; 08/21/08 10:09 AM.
#2572165 - 08/21/08 11:00 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Brigstock]  
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I think it's an interesting start. Charge a low amount for a minimal game, and charge more for the full? game..

#2572166 - 08/21/08 11:06 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: tagTaken2]  
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it really does depend on the pricing structure.

#2572178 - 08/21/08 11:29 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Brigstock]  
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The planes don't bother me so much. Being able to pick and choose is pretty cool. One sq could fly one type of plane and might not pay for the others. I'm assuming that one plane could fly against another in MP without both players needing the opponent's plane addon.

What really bothers me though are the payed-for missions and the lack of AI ground units in MP. If it's nothing but dogfighting, something is lost. And MP is the most important aspect for me.

#2572183 - 08/21/08 11:47 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: tagTaken2]  
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I think the design scheme above is close to what's been projected, except for the indication of only two initial player-aircraft being available (that would be a change), and a mission editor not being included in the package.

The scheme is based on the "grow your own game" concept, where you decide the content you wish to expand it by. Aircraft add-ons, mission packs, and other object content can be purchased as desired, this enabling expansion and support of the sim into the future. The plan requires the designers to stay engaged in the growth process too, through offering official add-ons, by controlling important code modifications via free patches, and to maintain online compatability for instance.....all the while being able to profit from the process of doing so.

I have to admit that I support this concept wholeheartedly, and have talked it up on a number of forums over these past years. It supports the sim's initial start-up and introduction process, and also projects a revenue stream for small developers to draw on over time (so they stay in business).

We've seen too many WWI sim projects fail over these past years, so hopefully some publisher now will see the sense of taking on the risk of producing another combat flight sim (if there's potential money to be made).

Of course it's not all about the dollars, as offering the consumer something he/she can get excited about buying is just as important too. Market realities dictate that both the commercial interests and the consumer have something to show for their investment.

#2572185 - 08/21/08 11:52 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: FlyRetired]  
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An update in the beginning of next year? Presumably they expect a release some time this year! That's very encouraging. And I agree with FlyRetired's post, I would rather see this business model adopted than see the game never released owing to lack of funds.

#2572186 - 08/21/08 11:59 AM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: mmitch10]  
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Precisely.

I understand those who bellow that they want the FINISHED PRODUCT on release, and not a late beta, but I'd rather have a bird in the hand.

#2572188 - 08/21/08 12:05 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: mmitch10]  
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It's the paid for missions that disappoints, I can live with paid addon A/C. But the lack of mission builder is a killer. I always presumed that would be included. I am very disappointed about that. I also presumed we'd get more than 2 aircraft in the initial release also.

I would like to see some indication of pricing as well. Am I going to have to lay out £100+ for a handful of flyables and a selection of missions?

#2572190 - 08/21/08 12:11 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Brigstock]  
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Yes, I know what you mean abut the fmb, and of course I would rather have seen the game released with lots of a/c, fmb and all the other bells and whistles. Nevertheless, it looks like a realistic business model to support a small developer in getting this product onto our pcs.

Last edited by mmitch10; 08/21/08 12:12 PM.
#2572191 - 08/21/08 12:17 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: tagTaken2]  
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The project's concept has called for some initial design features to be embraced early in the build process, so that expansion versatility would enable continued growth of the sim's single-player and multiplayer components together.

The basic sim package has to be of an initial high order of development quality, to allow it to be expanded by the consumer in the years to come. The commitment to quality, to the consumer, and to future support is inherent in the concept.

No one should ever be expected to accept low performance in any of these regards (IMO).


#2572198 - 08/21/08 12:33 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Brigstock]  
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 Originally Posted By: Brigstock
I would like to see some indication of pricing as well. Am I going to have to lay out £100+ for a handful of flyables and a selection of missions?

That's a good question Brig.

First would be the initial base sim cost to consider, and then any chosen additions.

You won't buy what you don't want to fly. If the sim's base product (aerial combat) is indeed excellent, then practice to master each aircraft will be required, and add-on purchases will therefore occur over time.

Lack of a mission editor would indeed be a disappointment.

#2572207 - 08/21/08 12:50 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: FlyRetired]  
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 Originally Posted By: FlyRetired


Lack of a mission editor would be a disappointment.


Yes, and if the missions are encrypted (shudders)... With text or xml based missions, it would be a nice challenge to make an unofficial mission editor - that can evolve in a (dynamic) campaign mission editor.

If no mission editor, at least open-format missions!

#2572212 - 08/21/08 12:55 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: Laser]  
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Excuse my ignorance..what do you mean by "open-format missions"?

#2572213 - 08/21/08 12:56 PM Re: Un official KotS news from Leipzig [Re: FlyRetired]  
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User made missions/campaigns are what kept IL2 going in the early days. Neoqb are going to have to put out a lot missions at a reasonable price to keep the momentum going. The initial planned release is no bigger than a demo. We will need more.

My expectation was we'd get a 1917 scenario based sim, with the relevant aircraft for that period and theatre of ops, a couple of scripted campaigns and some single missions, with a mission builder. Followed at a later date with expansion packs that bring in other era's and theatre's of WWI.

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