Hey guys,
I was just on Hyperlobby and I ran across two guys who were running their own server. In the course of an hour, they shot down 70-100 planes and got shot down maybe only one time or none. Now, they were working as a team, but I do not think anybody is that good. When people set up a server, can they set it up to mess with the ini or config files to give themselves an unfair advantage at your expense ? There are some good virtual pilots out there, no doubt, but their performance (against many other good pilots) was godlike. How do you detect if someone is running an unfair server?

How many of the servers on HL are setup with unfair rules benefiting the host party?

Also, I often see the message, "Cheat detected" when online. Is this really someone logging in who is trying to cheat with a custom config file that gives him unfair advantages, or is it something innocent (like internet lag)?

Whatta you guys think?

Jay

PS - In this same vein, is it possible for someone to add custom aircraft to their servers or maps that have far above average tweaked settings, like super powerful custom cannons, or turn radius' that no one else can match?

Don't anyone post until I get my popcorn.

PS-I did page you to stop flying in those quakehead DF servers...so you were warned...:) I ran a bunch of coops tonight and you never joined.

Aviar

Aviar - So what do you think? With your experience, how many servers have you come across that seem rigged ? Also, thanks for that invite to your coops. I will get in there soon

Jay

Actually Aviar - I saw your coop and I clicked in a blank slot in HL and it did not allow me to join? Did I do something wrong or is there a password? Or am I just a numbskull?

Jay

It's a lag problem. Long ago the common exploit for a few was to disconnect their Internet connection briefly to force lag and therefore escape from being shot down. I never liked the "Cheating detected" message; it should be "Bad connection" or "Warping a lot."

Okay, Dart, that answers one of the questions, but what do you think about unfair servers? Have you experienced these types of servers before? 90 kills in one hour against ten other guys in continual furball without ever being shot down yourself is godlike? Is the server rigged?

I doubt the server itself is rigged, but the "God-like" players may have been using some hacked/modded files. Don't bother asking any questions about that side of the IL-2 community, SimHQ likes to pretend it doesn't exist. If you see players that seem extraordinarily great like that (90 kills in an hour is airquake taken to it's highest level) then something is probably amiss.

The best thing to do is to find another server that is running the latest official version (4.08m) without any mods. At least on one of those servers you'll know that you're on a level playing field in regards to having the game's stock flight models, damage models and armament modeling.

Many folks also run servers using the next version's beta files (4.09 beta). 4.09 will be the last official version of the IL-2 series, but has yet to be released.



I agree. You can change those messages a bit by editing the "\<46 folder>\i18n\netmessages.properties" file. It doesn't remove the "cheating detected" part (which is mis-labeled as you mentioned), but you can add a little bit to the various lines so that whichever player is having problems will show up. I use the following:



Just adding the "{0}" in front of the displayed message let's you see which player is having the connection issues. The on-screen message shows up as "Cheating Detected: <player's name> is having connection problems".

If I happen to know I'm flying near that player, I usually break off and watch to see if he warps off the map. There have been a couple occasions where it's come in quite handy, allowing me to warn other friendlies that a player is going to slide away then probably pop back in on someone's six. One time I just happened to be positioned below and behind the guy when he popped back in, allowing me to give him a nasty surprise before he was able to warp off again... Watching a guy warp off while on fire is amusing.

Hey Sandman - Thanks for the honest reply. It was so funny because after I was on this server with the godlike fighter aces who never seemed to suffer any hits (even ones I inflicted directly with my own eyes), I logged onto another Hyperlobby server of a known good squad and asked about the presence of rigged servers and the reply I got back was nothing, nada, zip, zippo, zero. There were like fifteen guys on there playing and no response???? So, I knew something was up, and something was strange. It was an eerie feeling that I have not felt since I happened to be taking some photos near a military base (which I wasn't even aware of) in Jakarta, Indonesia during the Suharto days.

Needless to say, I was one of many newbies who went to read Bearcat99's post for new players, but I think this is the type of critical information that new IL2 players should be aware of. There is alot of critical information which is missing from Bearcat's response and the Official Manual about items like Hyperlobby and how to enjoy it. I am intrigued by this and I am fairly adept at computer programming, so I am thinking about making a little cheat detecting program for people who also use HL. Working through the ports and SPI/NAT firewalls will be a little tough, but there is a great guy in my lab who has already written custom software for our networked servers and several other specialized network applications, so I am sure he and I can come up with something.

In the next few days, he and I will begin to go over the ini and config files and found out what people are doing to them, if anything. It may take awhile, but nothing more frustrating to log onto to what you think is a 'fair' server to find something funny is up. If I am successful, I will post with a link here in SimHQ, if they allow me.

Let's see what I can find,

Jay

Never come across a 'rigged' server as you put it..
I assume they exist, but not had any experience of it.
Alot of the time though, many people who complain about cheating, or believe they could never have been brought down by fair means, actualy don't have the skill to take on many of the brilliant flyers out there that work as a team.. in particular, if you are operating on your own, you are at a distinct disadvantage most of the time.
Don't get me wrong mate, I'm not saying that that applies to you, but it is a common misconception!

You'll pick things up quickly obviously you in the slightly-too-small suit as you have the very good sense to get an early word of advice on the whacky world of cheating silliness and its charmless citizens

A pilot in training is a rookie. Or an Ensign Eliminator, nugget and quite possibly erk. Start as you mean to carry on Flight Sergeant. That is all, pick up your weekend pass on your way out.

Ming

-----Just adding the "{0}" in front of the displayed message let's you see which player is having the connection issues. The on-screen message shows up as "Cheating Detected: <player's name> is having connection problems".-----

Actually, when the above edit is made, the 'Cheating Detected' part is no longer displayed in the message....which is probably a good thing.

Aviar

There is little to no cheating in Il2 and never has been. Any "strangeness" surrounding "questionable" players is probably your imagination.

Thats what the "sound modders" will tell you anyway

It does sound suspicious, but TBH it's not the first time I've seen a post like this and that is before the unmentionable arrived. There has always been questions around "superhuman players" and I know of one squad who were using questionable exploits in the IL2 code well before the you know what.

I've got to echo what Trooper said, sometimes a player with a good team mate and who knows his aircraft coupled to server settings regarding difficulty can really do well. Aviar said some of those servers can be airquake environments and players who play like that all the time will always do exceptionally well. Which is why I favour coops and war scenarios over DF servers.

Of course it could also be that the difficulty settings as advertised in HL aren't the same as in the server - one can click "cockpit on" in the HL difficulties and have the server running cockpit optional; unless someone actually bothers to check it out, one would never know.

That would give a huge advantage to those who knew against those that didn't.

I'm glad you're not naming names, as without an .ntrk file it's all just speculation.

Salute

Most of the time, what someone might perceive as cheating, is actually just lag problems, ie. poor connectivity. Most of the messages stating someone is 'cheating', are just indications that that person is experiencing a poor connection.

However...

In the past, some players have cheated by using 'speedhaxx', which allowed them to increase their speeds, and move around the map. Those issues were mostly dealt with by Oleg. When a server has the 'Check run time=2' enabled, then these types of cheaters are booted.

Since the extractor for IL-2's files has been created, and the 'soundmod' has come out, it is possible to cheat by flying with a modified flight model on servers which do not have the 'Checkruntime=2' enabled.

Some servers do not enable 'Checkruntime=2' to allow the soundmod to be used, so that additional AI aircraft can be used. This does open a window to cheating.

That said, I think the vast majority of players do not cheat, even those flying on the servers allowing the soundmod.

If you want to reduce the chances of being a victim of cheating, then fly servers which have
'Checkrun=2" enabled. That means you cannot run the soundmod.

It is also harder for people to cheat in servers where external views are not enabled, and where cockpits are always on, and where icons are either off, or greatly reduced. Without the ability to look around in external, it is harder for them to jump to advantageous locations or to spot enemy aircraft. Cheaters are basically lazy, they don't have the patience to learn how to fly well on their own, so they tend to avoid servers with high difficultly settings.

If you think you are seeing a cheat, record a track and look at it to confirm, then submit it to the server admin. If they don't do anything about it, then you could send it to a SimHQ admin, and they might post something.

Some smaller player hosted servers are hard to connect to, and the people hosting them have quite a bit better connection than most who join. That will give the host, and anyone from the immediate area, a large advantage, in that they are not suffering from lag, while others are.

Coming to "rigged" servers... I know only badly balanced maps...

Been on receiving end of cheat suspicions many times.

2 average players who can play well together, using their planes advantages and exploiting
enemys planes disadvantages, usually come out of fight on top vs noncoordinated flight of 4.

Thanks Buzzsaw - Very good information that will help me out when I start programming later this week. Thanks for the tips ! And yes, I agree with you, after using HL these past two weeks and trying out roughly 50 different servers, it was only this one particular server that what I saw, I would describe as unnatural. On other servers, I have run up against some really good virtual pilots who are just very hard to kill or even worse, two very good pilots who work in a team (and probably use Teamspeak), but the point is, they can be killed with patience and a little bit of luck. You will not be able to bring them down often, but it does happen. On this suspect server, I personally inflicted massive damage on two or three occasions to either one of these guys planes and they just kept flying as if nothing worse for the ware. So, very strange. I am well aware of the advantage multiplier of having just two guys working together well, versus any one man ace, but these guys were, for lack of a better word, godlike.

On another note, if I experience high lag and the server host obviously does not, how much of an advantage is that for the host? If I have 320 millisec ping and he only has 4 ms ping, does that mean my 3 dimensionally projected course just continues in a newtonian trajectory while I wait for responses to be sent while the host's actions are updated so much more frequently?


Jay

Just delayed action if connection is clean.

If you have packetloss, then there might b problems

I've lost count of the times that I've expended virtualy all of my ammunition into a target and its still refused to go down, even with large chunks of it falling off.. It's just a limitation of the game thats all.. The next occasion you will hit the same type with just a short burst and kill it straight away... Its just that this time you zapped it in exactly the right place to knock it down..
it's not real life is all, the game sometimes does this!

Y'all know I'm pretty crap but I've knocked down numbers like that in the past ... there've been a number of popular servers with bases like 100m from each other ph3Ar my I-16 and my P-39
... of course, I got smacked down plenty too but there are days when you just want to have a laugh and shoot the sh!t outa stuff

I know what really sucks ass and looks like cheating when you're getting your tail whipped - really low latency those 2 dudes were probably sitting next to each other