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#2461841 - 03/04/08 07:59 AM Is LOMAC "done"?  
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AV8R Offline
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so Im curious, is LOMAC going to get anymore patching?


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#2461907 - 03/04/08 10:45 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: AV8R]  
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there are talks about a "Posible" 1.13 Patch but its not cleared yet.There is a tread about this at the Lock-on official forums

#2462018 - 03/05/08 01:05 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: El Mudjahed]  
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Thats promising. It really does need some fixing before moving on IMHO.


AV8R
#2462333 - 03/05/08 12:50 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: AV8R]  
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The Community is doing all the work now - although Eagle Dynamics worked hard to release Lock On and LO-FC, they released the patches as per contract, and moved on to other projects.

the next patch will never be released - if it were to be, it would have been done soon after 1.12 when all the issues were raised and the time to do it was right.

The more we complain, the angrier ED becomes, in their mind they already moved on, and don't want to be bothered about it.

This is a simple business decision, to keep alive FC to bridge over until the release of LOBS, I mean, DCS-BS.

This of course will come back to bite their rear ends later on, as community support for DCS-BS etc. will in all probability never be as great as for LO/LO-FC.

(by the way, ED hasn't got Thirdwire's or Lead Pursuit continued support mind-set)


#2462385 - 03/05/08 02:21 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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joey45 Offline
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i thought some else [company] got it..... or the LO community could help out on it....


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#2462436 - 03/05/08 03:26 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Colonel Kern Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Thomas DW


(by the way, ED hasn't got Thirdwire's or Lead Pursuit continued support mind-set)



Which is precisely why I will never purchase another ED product. Notwithstanding I have no real interest in BS in the first place.


The Colonel

"They're not toys. They're collectables."
#2462460 - 03/05/08 04:04 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Colonel Kern]  
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Never say never \:D

ED will have to hustle a lot now ( I will buy LOBS although I don't plan to learn how to fly helicopters ) to prove that they will not do the same again on DCS BS. Good luck to them.

#2462496 - 03/05/08 05:06 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Agreed. As Gollum said, "Never is a very long time."

But for the moment I have better uses for my simming dollar.


The Colonel

"They're not toys. They're collectables."
#2462590 - 03/05/08 07:06 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Colonel Kern]  
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As one in the software business myself, its a known thing that you have to balance
EOL (end of life) with fortressing (taking care of your existing customer base).

Reoccurring sales are a function of customer satisfaction on existing products.
Theres also a time to cut your losses or manage the costs for future projects... however...

One of the ways this is done without burning good faith of your customer base is to FULLY
communicate the EOL date and giving the community a last shot at what needs to be fixed before
moving on.

Failure to do so leaves the customer feeling they were led down a dead or broken end.
Proper communications are key, and thats why LeadPursuit have great guys like C3PO and ED1
to support their product and manage the customer sat and expectations.

I for one, respect them alot for their efforts and how they handled the many IP encroachments and
slanders over the years. They are running a class act, IMHO. This buys customer loyality.

Im hoping LOMAC will fair as well. Im not a ED forum hound, so maybe they have or have not done
the full EOL and patching communications, I just dont know. Which is why I asked in this thread.


AV8R
#2462692 - 03/05/08 09:21 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: AV8R]  
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As another in the business I could not agree more.

While I understand ED is not IBM or Microsoft it still begs the question as to how they justify dropping support for a product with known problems just so they can "move on".

I'm tired of the excuses. Plenty of small developers find ways to support their product beyond two patches.


The Colonel

"They're not toys. They're collectables."
#2462931 - 03/06/08 02:06 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Colonel Kern]  
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The FAQ from the DCS forum
 Quote:

Q: Does the launch of the new DCS series mean the end of Lock On?
A: Absolutely not. The DCS series and Lock On will live side by side for many years to come. The Lock On community is extremely active, with many websites, and new users are purchasing Lock On and Flaming Cliffs every day. Modifications are continually being launched by the communities that enhance the Lock On experience. Though we will not be launching new aircraft for Lock On, we are evaluating a 1.13 patch to meet the continual demands of the Lock On community.


read the full FAQ here at the DCS forum

Last edited by joey45; 03/06/08 02:15 AM.

DCS:World Sqd - 159th G.A.R
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#2462984 - 03/06/08 02:53 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: joey45]  
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I imagine updates from now on will really come from modders. I realize they are not MS and have to move on.

Look what happened with F4. RV is more advanced in every way than F4:AF except for multi player. Some people would disagree and that's OK with me. That's just my opinion. I've got my moneys worth out of Lockon a while ago.

Now if I could just get that EE2 to work as advertised.

#2463051 - 03/06/08 04:22 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: AV8R]  
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Honestly, if they could just backwards engineer Black Shark's mission editor to Lockon, I'd be happy. Not going to happen, I know, but thats what I'm looking forward to most. In buying BS, I feel like I'm keeping ED afloat until they can put a proper fighter jet in that super duper mission editor. ;\)


"By the way, even though I know its based on accurate data, it still pisses me off too when I'm about to gun someone and my screen starts to go black. I guess its only natural." - Pete Bonanni
#2463088 - 03/06/08 05:15 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: RedTiger]  
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Bard Offline
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ED seem to have a different focus to developers like Maddox and Lead Pursuit. While the latter both generate 'good will' and reputation through continual patching and improvement ED don't seem to be able to appreciate how valuable good will is or just can't afford to do so.


What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:

"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson

"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman

NEVER ENGAGE STUPID.
#2463116 - 03/06/08 06:14 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Bard]  
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 Quote:
While I understand ED is not IBM or Microsoft it still begs the question as to how they justify dropping support for a product with known problems just so they can "move on".

I'm tired of the excuses. Plenty of small developers find ways to support their product beyond two patches.

For one thing, you're forgetting that Lock On is not ED's product. Granted - some of the current problems were introduced in FC, which was an "unofficial" ED add-on (read: belongs to Ubisoft). Nevertheless, you can probably see how it may be difficult for ED to continue incurring costs (which is all a patch is) for developing or supporting a product that it doesn't own, especially when multiple other contracted projects are awaiting completion. Still, ED has stated many times that they are aware of the issues raised by the community and would like to address them if possible. However, given other projects currently under development, they are not able to do so at this point. If resources allow at a later time, ED would like to release a final patch for FC. This may or may not happen - it's merely a statement of the current situation.

Last edited by EvilBivol-1; 03/06/08 07:53 AM.

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#2463205 - 03/06/08 11:10 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: EvilBivol-1]  
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joey45 Offline
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so we should hassle Ubisoft 'cos they own LO.... "to the bat-mobile"


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#2463218 - 03/06/08 11:55 AM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: joey45]  
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Ubisoft owns the IP, ED owns the product and pays a fee to Ubisoft for every copy it sells.

I can turn that argument on its head, although ED does not own the IP and has other priorities, it insists in supporting LO and FC.

I am sure ED has wonderful plans for the future, and that its next add on will feature the Su-27, MiG-29 and Su-25 - all of them with advanced FM and clickable cockpits, and that it plans to release it by 2010, until then they want us to twiddle our fingers.

I cringed when I watched that video of a 100 AMRAAMS missing a target, if I were ED I would address that issue just to avoid the shame of watching it again.

My 2c.

#2463221 - 03/06/08 12:03 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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Thomas, what would you do without ED ? ;\)

#2463328 - 03/06/08 02:56 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Groove]  
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 Originally Posted By: Groove
Thomas, what would you do without ED ? ;\)


to tell you the truth, I like Lock On because of its community. \:\)

#2463527 - 03/06/08 06:19 PM Re: Is LOMAC "done"? [Re: Tom_Weiss]  
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 Originally Posted By: Thomas DW


I cringed when I watched that video of a 100 AMRAAMS missing a target, if I were ED I would address that issue just to avoid the shame of watching it again.


Its funny you bring that up. I was watching that video the other day and it dawned on me. I thought "the players of this sim have stretched it so far, its finally snapped!". I chalk the phenomenon in Lockon up to the fact that the community is so multiplayer-heavy.

Why? Well, I don't know if anyone here plays any MMOs, but this is such a common thing its unbelievable that no one sees this coming in other genres. Developers of MMOs can beta test a game for years and it STILL will not stand up to the scrutiny of 1 month of play by the online player base. Having thousands and thousands (or millions in the case of something like World of Warcraft) playing the game for hours a day, online, discussing it, experimenting, pushing boundaries, sharing that info, etc. causes. an exponential growth in knowledge about the game. It is physically impossible for the developers to test the product at the same levels the online player base will.

Think about Falcon. When's the last time you heard people complain about "such and such aircraft being too powerful" or "this missile doesn't perform correctly" like you do in sims like Lockon and IL2? You don't! People don't approach Falcon as a multiplayer experience to the extent people do with Lockon. There are some very glaring problems with Falcon 4.0 that are plain to see if you push the limits of the weapons models by way of repetition, but no one address them because I honestly think people don't do this. They play the campaign all day and don't play head to head online much or create missions that will uncover these limitations. Repetition is the antithesis to Falcon 4.0, its strength is the randomness of the campaign!

In the end, developers will comment about the players findings and players will literally think "are you playing the same game we are?". No, they aren't. They may have created it, but the players as a whole have pushed the boundaries far more than those developers could have ever imagined.

Bad developers either have a knee-jerk reaction to complaints of bugs and imbalances (which can destroy the game) or they will do nothing and not even address it. The key for a good developer, IMO, is to address the issues. Even if they say "We've looked at the numbers. We're right, you're wrong, working as intended, learn2play". At least they've validated the player base's concerns by crunching the numbers and considering a change.

Has ED addressed the concerns? Part of addressing is seriously reviewing the issue for possible change. Has ED done this? I ask because I honestly have no idea.


"By the way, even though I know its based on accurate data, it still pisses me off too when I'm about to gun someone and my screen starts to go black. I guess its only natural." - Pete Bonanni
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