I'm playing the Hells Angels mod and I have the hardest time bringing down Spads. I think all the aircraft in this game have "sweet spots" that make them quicker to bring down. For example, I've noticed when engaging Dorand AR1's and Breguet 14's that if I fire just inside max range, when you can just start to see the bullets scatter, you tend to kill the crew members easily; making for an easy kill.

Yet, with those same aircraft, if I close to where my prop is about to chop the tail of the enemy aircraft off, i.e. pretty damn close, I can pour everything in him and hardly ever get a pilot kill. Its little tricks like these that help me get the quicker kills.

However, Spads are another story, I know these aircraft are tough and durable, but damn, I consistently run out of ammo and rarely get them down. It has gotten so bad, that I only engage Spads if I have 2:1 ratio, even then, its stretch. I might be able to bring one down, or do some maneuvers to make him crash, but thats about it. Just wondering if anyone has found a "sweet spot" for quickly bringing down Spads?

Another thing that frustrates me is the AI doesn't seem to be held to the same laws of gravity or physics as me. I was in a DR1 up against a Spad, and I should be able to out climb him, yet he does these boom and zoom maneuvers where he starts to shudder for a stall, and then stands up on tail, climbs another thousand feet and performs an immelmann! I've seen almost all the AI fighters I've do this, Nieuport 11's, 17's, 24's, and Spads. It really frustrates me, they never stall!

Do you have the latest FM and DM for HASP, Greybeard Flight Model Version 4.7 and Zinteck Damage Model v.5.0 BETA?
http://www.jamrom.com/hellsangels/FM_DM.htm
Do you have Enemy Skill Factor set to 111%, (Greybeard's recommended setting), when Realism Settings are on Full? (You can dial down the Realism Settings except for Instruments and FM once you've got the slider at 111%.)

I can't offer much advice about Spads, since you seem much more skilled than I. I avoid them if I can. I once shot down several in 1918 Air War when I caught them low in a balloon attack. They are superior at B&Z but I could out-turn them down low. Minor deflection shots from behind are better than a 6 o'clock tail-chopping-off burst.

If you want to look at the aircraft hit boxes for the HASP damage model, you can see them with the Damage Editor at Cap'n Darwin's site:
http://www.swwisa.net/captdarwin/

Hi Bird,

I sort of thought that those FM & DM were part of the HASP download. Guess I'd better get over there and install them....

Again, Thanks for the headsup

Cheers mate

I'm running the latest HASP 3A. Does that include those models? If not, I'll give those a try.

Oh, and BTW, I normally do run from Spads! But sometimes I get stuck and have to fight them. I hate going up against them.

I don't think Otto has modified the main HASP download in a very long time. Unzip them into your Simpatch folder, FM first and then DM and let them overwrite if you're not using Campaign Manager.

S! Lucky

Unfortunately, the AI FM is not the same as the players FM. You will find these discrepancies.
As for shooting the Spads down, you may find most of your bullets are hitting the tail and fusilage...great slug sinks!
I have found you get better results from waiting till they turn slightly or climb slightly. Then aim just above or to the left or right of the fusilage. In other words you are trying to hit the pilot or engine with a slight amount of lead. Experiment a bit and see what makes a difference.

Regarding Spads and other targets.....
I've been finding that hitting any H.A. directly from behind seems to do little damage and almost never kills the pilot or rear gunner. Most times an attack from the rear will destroy the landing gear or cause heavy damage to the wings and/or tail surfaces. However, to hit the crew or the engine area, deflective shooting of about 10 to 20 degrees seems to work the best. Frontal attacks from above and slightly off center delivers even better results but is the most dangerous and difficult skill to achieve....

An aside:
About a week ago, my DH2 was badly crippled during a combat with a couple of Albatros DIIs. Being low to the ground I elected to land behind enemy lines and turned off the engine to prevent a possible engine fire but didn't leave the game when asked. The DIIs circled above briefly and then left the scene. After a few minutes passed I tried re-starting the engine which worked. Then I managed to get air bourne and limped back over 'No-Man's-Land' and landed at the first friendly aerodrome I came across. Does a grounded A/C ever get straffed after landing?

Just wondering?

The AI always leave soon after you land anywhere plus your plane is cured of structural damage but not leaks.
Spads are certainly tough and HASP's plane models have very small hitboxes. You can increase your bullet effectiveness with CM11.
Shooting a little high of center (go for top wing)if you can't get deflection helps with Spads. Leading them with very short bursts when they zoom or turn and dive works best.
The AI are experts at retaining "energy" for their zooming antics. I can't match them either with a supposedly superior climbing plane like a Tripe or DrI!
You can also get different AI behaviours with the AI Slider program (included with FCJ-CP).

Bad0gre, I think you might be onto something. I was flying yesterday and had a flight of 6 DRI's to attack infantry positions when we got bounced by 4 or 5 Spads. I don't know the exact number as they came out of nowhere and caught me off guard, but I think it was 4 or 5. Anyway, they were XIII's and I shot two of them as they began to start a climb for a boom and zoom. I aimed slightly above them and shot their propellor.

Unfortunately, none of them counted as kills, because they both glided and landed safely! Despite this, my flight got mauled. I only returned with me and my wingman, and he had his landing gear ripped off, so I was the only one who emerged relatively unscathed.

Skylark, about landing. Its almost like cheating in a way, but I sometimes do it. If I have a badly shot up crate, I can sometimes land, and when the plane comes to a full stop, the plane mysteriously repairs itself! You can then wait for them to leave and safely fly home. Another trick is to run and fly low, really low, low enough that you can go through the tree tops. You should have you shadow always in sight, thats how low you should be. At this altitude, the AI may chase you, but they won't get a shot on you. They may try, but they always miss. You can do this all the way home, it just takes alot of nerve to fly low, without time accelleration, with 5 or 6 enemy AC on your tail the whole way.

I was going to mention this. I've done it many times in the presence of overwhelming enemy forces. Absolute nap of the earth flying, hopefully with one of those river valleys to get me through No Man's Land. If I am over the Mud, I'll fly back through a friendly infantry position, to lead my pursuers into AA fire. I've even landed at infantry positions, since I've read of pilots doing this and calling their aerodromes for a lift home. As you say, Lucky, it's nerve wracking.