Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#2127437 - 02/01/07 06:31 AM Hello Team,  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
exhausted Offline
Member
exhausted  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
none
I haven't been on this board long, the Jet Thunder board that is. I was just wondering what the team used for research and how closely you are trying to match the flight envelopes, and what they look like now.

Thanks!

oscar


Words, such as liberal and liberty, all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#2127450 - 02/01/07 07:32 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: exhausted]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
Hi oscar,

We're using the Flight Manuals for the simulated aircraft. Chris Kasie is kindly helping with first generation Harrier performance charts directly scanned from declassified official documentation. IvanK is an ex-Mirage pilot and will help us tune the flight envelope of the only supersonic jet in our line-up. So far so good, the only flyable plane missing data now is the Pucara (official data seems elusive, only available in Argentina).

At the moment the flight envelopes are not tuned yet and are heavily enhanced for debug purposes - i.e. planes turn faster than real ones, bleed less speed etc so we can point them quickly to targets and fire to see effects of our weapons and so on - but this will change of course, as many of our contributors and fans are ex-pilots of these planes and remember very well how they handle. ;\)


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#2127475 - 02/01/07 08:28 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
exhausted Offline
Member
exhausted  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
none
Well that's so refreshing to hear! I'm glad you have the help you need for tuning the aircraft right. That's good news to hear and I really can't wait to try it when it comes out.

Will Jet Thunder be released by a distributor in the USA?
Have you thought about what's coming after Jet Thunder?


Words, such as liberal and liberty, all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
#2127476 - 02/01/07 08:28 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
exhausted Offline
Member
exhausted  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
none
double post.

Last edited by exhausted; 02/01/07 08:36 AM.

Words, such as liberal and liberty, all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
#2131108 - 02/06/07 09:23 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: exhausted]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
Quote:
Will Jet Thunder be released by a distributor in the USA?
Have you thought about what's coming after Jet Thunder?


Indeed, we're negociating with distributors that cover USA as well. Big market, with McDonnel Douglas A-4 Skyhawk going in the cover of the USA retail release. ;\)

After Jet Thunder: Falklands/Malvinas, we tought about other 2 scenarios never covered in flightsims with sort of balanced air combat activities going on: Indo-Pakistani wars, and Arab-Israeli wars. Last one specially interesting for reuse of some plane assets (Skyhawk, Mirage, Yom Kippur, Six Days, Attrition).

But we're not sure. Unlike South Atlantic 1982, these scenarios are still polemical and sensitive topics, specially Arab-Israeli historic.
Although I know EA/Jane's released a game on this subject, Jane's IAF.


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#2131696 - 02/06/07 11:43 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,632
Baco Offline
Member
Baco  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,632
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Or you could do a hipotetical Beagle conflict whent HOT, and have Argentina and Chile duke it out. Veri simmilar hardware involved so it would be quite even ;). And you can make it dynamic and take no side, hehehehe.

But count me in for any of teh other scenarios as well ;).


Fighter pilots make movies, Attack Pilots make history.
#2132160 - 02/07/07 12:59 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Baco]  
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 497
silent-one Offline
Member
silent-one  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 497
Christchurch.quake central
Arab Israeli is the way to go. Its the area I enjoy fighting in the most with SFP1. A dedicated game for the arena would rock! Please dont go sor some obscure bush war most of the world couldnt give a damn about do something high profile. Vietnams done by WOV and sfp1.... few other areas that will catch the imagination.


"The vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice."
Washington DC, 27 October, 2003. President Goerge W Bush
#2132168 - 02/07/07 01:15 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,248
vince-16 Offline
Member
vince-16  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,248
Quote:
After Jet Thunder: Falklands/Malvinas, we tought about other 2 scenarios never covered in flightsims with sort of balanced air combat activities going on: Indo-Pakistani wars, and Arab-Israeli wars


WOW WOW!! Arab-Israeli wars!! That's music to my ears ! Six days war and Yom Kippur war are really formidable subjects for a flight combat simulator. Particularly Yom Kippur I think.

#2132490 - 02/07/07 08:33 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: vince-16]  
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 195
nerves Offline
Member
nerves  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 195
Jacksonville, Fl.
Fantastic news. What's the ETA for release? and Media (DVD/etc..)? What are some of the Net connectivity tools planned?

#2132526 - 02/07/07 09:14 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 249
ECV56_PolTen Offline
Member
ECV56_PolTen  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 249
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Originally Posted By: Dante-JT
So far so good, the only flyable plane missing data now is the Pucara (official data seems elusive, only available in Argentina).

Dante, if you need to contact someone with fliying experience in Pucar, at the ECV 56 we can get you in contact with one or two persons. Just say the word

#2132541 - 02/07/07 09:42 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: ECV56_PolTen]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,632
Baco Offline
Member
Baco  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,632
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Like Pablo Said: just ask and we can contact you with people that know everything there is to know about the plane and weapons systems... And hands on experience.


Fighter pilots make movies, Attack Pilots make history.
#2132706 - 02/08/07 01:08 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: exhausted]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
exhausted Offline
Member
exhausted  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
none
It's good news that the team is looking at ideas for after Jet Thunder is released.

I disagree about going with the Arab/Israeli Wars. Though they do use some of the same aircraft that Jet Thunder will utilize, I don't feel that the theater is that interesting enough. Also, it would be pretty one sided. There is still a lot of classified information on the subject, and I don't think that the Arab Israeli theater could be faithfully recreated. Though, I do feel that pushing for a politically sensative topic is a great idea, it is a big responsibility creating it historically.

If I were in charge of the next direction, I would definately say that the terrible wars between India and Pakistan would be infinately more playable. This theater also uses some planes that were used in the Falkands, - the Canberra.

Also used were the:
F-86, armed with Sidewinders
F-104A, with and without the gun. Scored the first kills for the F-104 on Indian Canberras
MiG-21F - proved to be a better fighter then the F-104
MiG-19
Hunter


There were surely more, but this really is an interesting theater.

I have an idea if you want to do someting TRUELY ambitious...

see the next post.


Words, such as liberal and liberty, all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
#2132719 - 02/08/07 01:25 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: exhausted]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
exhausted Offline
Member
exhausted  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
none
The basis was to be an F-4 sim and cover all theaters the plane was based. It was to have historical campaigns in Israel, Vietnam, and Persian Gulf. But it is IMPERATIVE to model the systems of the F-4 correctly! Especially the rear cockpit.

The Phantom was a widely exported aircraft, and it was a multirole plane. I figure a sim that covers a wide range of types, and obscure models, would be educational, and could change the gaming industry. It could give the title 'simulator' it's name back. There is a vacuum in the industry and this could fill it well.

There are a couple ways at approaching this as far as multiplayer is concerned. One would be to make it a joint "F-4 Phantom II vs MiG-21" simulator where you model 5-6 important F-4 models, and 5-6 important MiG-21 models. That would cover East and West, and that could work for world release.

Think Korea, Vietnam, Iran vs Iraq, Persian Gulf, Europe, and Arab/Israel - both planes have those theaters in common. With variants of the MiG-21 and F-4, one could play a wide variety of strike, fighter, and recon missions.

Then could elaborate. The MiG-21 was used by India in a theater that the F-4 wasn't in, but you could still cover it.


The other way to model multiplayer would be to add a few novelty planes in addition to the F-4. Add planes like the F-8 Crusader, F-105 Thunderchief, A-4 Skyhawk, Mirage III, MiG-17, MiG-21F, PF, M, MF, and MiG-23. That way you could still cover a lot of theaters with variety.


Words, such as liberal and liberty, all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
#2132815 - 02/08/07 04:04 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: exhausted]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
exhausted: indeed, for arab-israeli wars or anything middle-east 1969-upwards, the Phantom should be the center of the simulation - it's a very complex aircraft, I have a lot of documentation about it and it'd deserve a study sim of its own. If I remember well, there was a cancellated Phantom sim in the late 90/early 2000s, from some big american developer, I got a printed magazine of the time with cockpit photos, screenshots and stuff, I think it got the working title "MiG Killer", had rear cockpit modeling and so on.

As you mention, Indo-Pak wars seemed more balanced indeed. The arab-israeli ones could end very one-sided (check Janes IAF). This isn't decided yet, too early as JT:F/M isn't even fully alpha stage yet, it's just that publishers and other funding partners demands a 5-years product strategy/roadmap in our business plan, and to keep tradition, we filled the gaps with suggestive historic flight sims in the jet age that never have been done before.

One plane surely will have many scenarios is the MiG-21. I already got several drawings and plans and we may be doing its 3D model and cockpit in parallel (models F, PF, MF), low priority in the background, but practically any historical scenario in the jet age after Korea had it playing a role.

Pablo and Baco: for sure, we need desperately the Pucara flight manual or any other documentation, all we have is a lot of photos I took of the cockpit (from Malvinas museum in Oliva) and superficial web data. The flight manuals for the other planes we already have, even Super Etendard (in french, but works).


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#2132851 - 02/08/07 05:59 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
exhausted Offline
Member
exhausted  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,688
none
Thanks for the quick reply Dante-JT.

I think that leading the way with an F-4 study sim would revitalize flight simming - possibly to where it was in the mid-1990s. The way I see it, a study sim of the F-4 should have a really obnoxious name that declares of the plane, "it was badass, you know it and your mom knows it, scumbag!"

I would suggest, "F-4 Phantom II - Thunderous Killer In The Sky."
That way it's abstract, groundbreaking, and eye catching.

With the Jet Thunder team working on a sim, and addons (like theaters), and Oleg doing World War II, it could give the industry a kick.

Have you thought about a simple console version of Jet Thunder for revenue?


Words, such as liberal and liberty, all trace their history to the Latin liber, which means "free".
#2132912 - 02/08/07 09:19 AM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 165
ijozic Offline
Member
ijozic  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 165
HR
Originally Posted By: Dante-JT
After Jet Thunder: Falklands/Malvinas, we tought about other 2 scenarios never covered in flightsims with sort of balanced air combat activities going on: Indo-Pakistani wars, and Arab-Israeli wars. Last one specially interesting for reuse of some plane assets (Skyhawk, Mirage, Yom Kippur, Six Days, Attrition).


Hmm, here's something that has been done only once and a very long time ago - an F-14 simulation (F-14 Fleet Defender by Microprose). But you can extend it with a Phantom or F/A-18, depending on a timeframe (or A-6, A-7 even). There would be some work with the F-14 avionics (the former sim did it very nice), but if you select an earlier timeframe (end of 70s/early 80s) and ditch the F/A-18, F-4, A-6 and A-7s' avionics shouldn't be too complicated to implement.

And since it's carrier ops, you can put it in almost any scenario (North Cape, Korea, East Med, etc.). My favourite would be a North Cape scenario with Soviets attacking Norway. That would make for some awesome low-level strike missions with A-6s and A-7s, while the Tomcats and Phantoms could duel it out with MiG-21s, 23s and 25s and intercept Backfires and Fencers. Then it can be extended to GIUK line scenario with Norway occupied so you might defend United Kingdom from cruise missiles and bombers. So Tornado and Jaguars could also be added (they could fly North Cape missions from Norway, also).
If you would also simulate MiG-21 and MiG-23, that would just be an icing on the cake. And there are no political connotations \:\)

Last edited by ijozic; 02/08/07 09:41 AM.

i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SoundBlaster 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1 btn 2 axis gameport joystick, Numpad as hat-switch. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH average.
#2133259 - 02/08/07 06:03 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: ijozic]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,402
Uther Offline
Aviation News Coordinator
Uther  Offline
Aviation News Coordinator
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,402
Upstate NY
Indo-Pak does sound very interesting.

Dare I say the last "MiG Alley" type of engagement?

There's a MiG-19 or 21 (I think it's a 19 but I can't tell from the distance/Tail end) not far from my house. I may be able to get some close photos if I ask.

I can't go full tilt on it, but if you're in a pinch and need something, give me a holler. I'll see what I can do.


If there be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.
#2134665 - 02/10/07 01:54 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,248
vince-16 Offline
Member
vince-16  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,248
I have to disagree about the fact too much data would be classified about arab-israeli wars. Sufficient data for a flight sim is available for Six days war and Yom Kippur.
As for Yom Kippur one of the extremely interesting aspect is that you have all aspects of modern air combat. This was a very complete air war, I think the most interesting air war since WWII and it's fully deserve a flight sim. I also don't see why it would be too one-sided except the fact that the air war israeli side was more interesting. Six days war would certainly be boring \:D but certainly not Yom Kippur!

As for F4 vs Mig 21 SFP1 is very good. I play it that way, with an excellent Mig 21 thanks to the community of moders. I hope more ambition would be put in a Jet Thunder following title.

Also you could make excellent use of the Dagger and Mirage III in a Yom Kippur war.

Also this is certainly not the more important, but commercialy speaking there's no comparison between Arab-israeli wars and India-Pakistan. Arab-Israel sells.

Last edited by vince-16; 02/10/07 01:57 PM.
#2134742 - 02/10/07 04:05 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: vince-16]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
exhausted: yes, publishers seem obsessed with console variants these days and always ask if a <[insert ur favorite modern console here]> version is possible. We could use our tech or expertise and do a new game to please them if funding in advance is provided; we can't just use South Atlantic Conflict theme in console I think, because these console flight games are about your super plane firing 40+ missiles and shooting wave after wave of enemy cannon-fodder planes and other assets \:\) could be a bit of a disrespect to families and relatives of the vets of this conflict which is only 25 years old today, IMHO.

ijozic: we know that a quality study sim of the F-14 would sell very well today. Fleet Defender by Microprose is too aged now. The Lybia campaign and Operation El Dorado Canyon will be a must
(a sim capable of handling the F-14 could also handle the F-111 pretty well I think).

Uther: Saratoga Springs NY, I think it's a MiG-21 at the Empire State Aerosciences Museum according to google. There's an F-14 there as well apparently.

vince-16: there's an interesting bit of trivia regarding the Daggers in Yom Kippur: some of them (called "Nesher" in Israel), with many air-to-air victories over arab MiGs, were later sold to argentina and fought the Sea Harriers over Falklands. ;\) (well, dashed away from them after bombing frigates and destroyers at San Carlos waters).


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#2135754 - 02/11/07 11:36 PM Re: Hello Team, [Re: Dante-JT]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 50
Gel214th Offline
Junior Member
Gel214th  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 50
Why do all recent combat flight sims seem to be going back in time?

When will we see modelling of the latest F22 fighter, the Eurofighter, the Gripen,SU-35,Joint Strike Fighter etc?

All the Next Gen aircraft that are out there and flying today seem to be left to modders to recreate after the sim is released.

I'm just a bit tired of the old 1970s planes. Is there a reason that developers are shying away from the latest and greatest fighters of our present time?

Last edited by Gel214th; 02/11/07 11:41 PM.

-Gel214th
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Justice for Maddie
by RossUK. 06/04/20 11:11 AM
Perhaps My Final Flight
by FishTaco. 06/04/20 02:59 AM
Blue Angel's will transition to the Rhino
by CyBerkut. 06/02/20 12:41 PM
The pancake chef...
by Mr_Blastman. 05/31/20 06:33 PM
DOSBox/MS-DOS6
by MarkG. 05/31/20 02:14 PM
Question for gun lovers
by Blade_RJ. 05/30/20 02:54 PM
The Last British Destroyer Commander of WWII
by F4UDash4. 05/30/20 12:43 PM
I'm down to one game.....
by PanzerMeyer. 05/29/20 02:19 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0