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#2122395 - 01/25/07 11:08 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Dart]  
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Mmm.. Even if the germans had gained air superiority, its pretty doubtful if they could have mounted a serious amphibious landing on the scale of D Day. They posessed none of the purpose built craft required to mount such an operation.
Large barges, many having to be towed and without power may not have even been sea-worthy enough to even cross the channel, let alone mount an opposed landing.
An airborne assault however on the scale of Crete may have been another matter..

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#2122804 - 01/26/07 01:27 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Trooper117]  
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Dart Offline
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Once the beach is secured, think Dunkirk. In reverse.

Sillier things have happened - keywords: Paris, taxicabs.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#2122878 - 01/26/07 02:56 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Dart]  
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I didn't know about that taxicab transport - very interesting.

To sum it up: it is all very complex and it is difficult to say what would have happened if.....

Let's all be happy that the Allies have won this war and that we have a democratic and quiet peaceful Europe now. It took us some hundred years. And I believe it will last some hundred years.


The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams
#2123289 - 01/26/07 11:36 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Tbag]  
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Dart Offline
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Yeppers!


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#2123884 - 01/27/07 11:22 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Dart]  
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Though I wonder how the germans would have done in order to supply properly their bridgehead ? Their Ju-52 had been badly hitted in May 1940 (Nederlands), and there weren't enough of them.
I don't think that the Kriegsmarine was able to deal with the omnipotent Royal Navy, even with a sky belonging to the Luft.

The D-Day success was enabled by the great logistics of the Allies. Without supply, you can't do anything.

#2124456 - 01/28/07 09:33 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: C6_Krasno]  
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D-Day was a possibility because the Allies owned the water completely with Many ships. They also had air supremacy.

The Germans had no such chance of owning the channel with the Royal Navy there, no contest. This alone would have stopped the invasion.

Mines, Submarines, Radar, shore batteries

Then there'd have been anti shipping aircraft, based farther inland and out of Luftwaffe fighter range, tearing into them continually.

Getting them across would have been a miracle, keeping them supplied, impossible.

#2124812 - 01/29/07 10:51 AM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Uther]  
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Getting them across would have been a miracle, keeping them supplied, impossible

Depending on where they landed that is...

The Channel is renowned for being a wide fast-flowing moat but this moat is hundreds of miles long and it didn't stop the Vikings Romans Normans European Community. Once they get a foothold ashore we're in trouble. Germany had a few planes but nothing too heavy. We got ashore because the German army was too busy over the occupation years stealing Normandy butter and wine to mount a proper lookout. We fought our way up from Italy, Germany could fight their way down from Scotland. When you think about how many German soldiers were killed, taken prisoner and still fighting in Russia and elsewhere and how much kit of theirs we destroyed over there you have to worry for UK. And be thankful they didn't 'concentrate your forces'. On Newcastle or somewhere up top. Grimsby.

Historians allege it could never have happened but of course it could have we are talking about Germany the place with the motorways seventy years ago while we were delivering coal by horse and cart. Germany wasted its massive resources and resolute forces trying to do too much. Too much evil. Bad Hitler! \:\)

Ming


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#2125287 - 01/29/07 08:46 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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Absolutes don't fit well into history.

"No way a light Infantry Division delivered by truck in an ad hoc defense could hold off ten division of Armor for more than a day."

"Elephants and alps don't mix."

;\)

I'm just thankful that the most terrible of possibilities did not come to fruitition.


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#2125331 - 01/29/07 09:43 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Dart]  
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Yes, and besides the UK's army had his strenght greatly hitted by the lose of its heavy vehicles and guns in France.

Last edited by C6_Krasno; 01/29/07 09:43 PM.
#2125588 - 01/30/07 03:45 AM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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Ming, for Germany to maintain an assault from Scotland they would require the British Navy to be destroyed, otherwise they would never be able to supply them. The invasion of Italy worked for the allies because the Battle of the Atlantic was coming to a close and the Africa front was nearly won.

I do believe that an airborne assault on the scale of Crete would succeed in creating a beachhead but it would result in a drawn out battle with their supply line constantly under threat and likely would have bled them white. Germany was never very good at the long drawn out battles, as their entire strategy was based on the blitzkreig and their military was built around it.

Last edited by 2GvSAP_Chief; 01/30/07 03:47 AM.

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#2126011 - 01/30/07 05:31 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: 2GvSAP_Chief]  
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True, but you're playing hell with my "what if" scenario that will allow for ground pounding in SoW: BoB, Chief!

;\)


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#2126038 - 01/30/07 06:08 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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Originally Posted By: Ming_EAF19
Getting them across would have been a miracle, keeping them supplied, impossible

Depending on where they landed that is...

The Channel is renowned for being a wide fast-flowing moat but this moat is hundreds of miles long and it didn't stop the Vikings Romans Normans European Community.
Ming


Ahh, but they weren't facing the largest (by far) and most experienced fighting navy in the world.

The butter and wine I'm sure did help us in Normandy though.

#2126121 - 01/30/07 07:41 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Uther]  
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It seems you forget the calvados ;\)

#2126274 - 01/30/07 10:21 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: C6_Krasno]  
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Ming


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#2127263 - 02/01/07 01:02 AM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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Ming, you are right! The germans could have ordered all their submarines to the channel, to wait for the order to surface and then ,suddenly.......there would be a submarine bridge between the continent and the UK! Sauerkraut for breakfast!


The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams
#2127545 - 02/01/07 11:57 AM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Tbag]  
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Or landed squads from those submarines with enough HE to blow up many vital installations at the same moment yes. If they could get enough nun's habits stored in the torpedo tubes and a few bicycles

Ming


'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
#2131157 - 02/06/07 12:30 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Pat_Pattle]  
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Lol, from the variety of replies and posts it seems there are no piccies of the airfields then \:D

IMO the airfields and enviroment are as an important part of a flight sim as the aircraft. Whats the point in having the most accurate aircraft and flight models in a historic battle if the airfields you take off and land at are not in themselves as accurate as can be, the immersion is ruined. There's no excuse to get this part of a sim wrong either, there's enough info about and if Maddox are paying modellers to make buildings they hopefully will model the correct ones. CFS3 is a good example of this - unrepresentational buildings which detract from the rest of the sim.

Rowans BoB/WoV2 has the best represented RAF wartime airfields so far (talking stock here) I really want SoW to take this area to the next level.

Just my tuppence worth \:\)

#2131402 - 02/06/07 06:15 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Pat_Pattle]  
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Oleg has some of flight sims best graphical artists. I'm sure if they have the time and the data the airfields will be well represented. A proper represention of the White Cliffs of Dover is my most wanted terrain object. Hopefully both of us will be pleasantly surprised.


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#2132396 - 02/07/07 06:10 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Chivas]  
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Dover is very important as are the fields.

These two aspects alone make navigation VFR very easy.

#2154753 - 03/08/07 04:02 PM Re: RAF airfields [Re: Uther]  
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There are so many examples of wartime RAF buildings still in existence that it should be easy to get photographs of good examples.

Has Oleg ever posted a list of the building types he still needs?

North Weald has a good example existing of a wartime nissan hut formerly used by crews on standby. Its used by a flying club now.

The RAF still has many examples of the large 30's era hangers which were built in great numbers, some now on non MoD sites.

What did the wartime control towers look like?

Will there be scenery for the Solent area. Portsmouth and Isle of Wight were the scenes of air battles. Portsmouth Harbour with the old fortifications both around the harbour and on Portsdown Hill behind and the Palmerston Forts in the Solent. I think they all had AA guns in the war. And what about including HMS Victory in the harbour? (or was it all sandbagged over?)

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