They're flying, but even planes as old as the F/A-18C have a lot of classified information on their systems.

Yup, a couple of reasons actually. First, Lockheed-Martin wants a large sum to license the use of their latest jet fighters. The same with all other high profile brand new jet fighters you mentionated. They also don't want to see their product (the jet) being damaged in a game or used in a war scenario with political implications, or any war scenario at all in some cases. The same legal issues happen with some racing games featuring high profile car brands that just don't show any visible damage even hitting a wall straight at 200MPH...

Other reason is the classified systems and flight data, it'll not be a simulation, it'll be a lot of wild guesses.

Well the first reason is the biggest one, we simply don't have the budget to buy the license and can't risk doing it anyway and being sued later by some heavyweight military contractor. A development company is a whole different ball game from a modder doing his F22 addon on his own. But if suitable funding appears for that we'll be pleased to use our tech to simulate any high profile modern jet fighter (a Rafale would be interesting, carrier ops and stuff

On the first reason I have this to say:

Once it becomes government property, and it's construction and design is paid for by tax dollars, they have made their money and have no reason to further control how it is exploited. They are joining the MPAA and RIAA in becoming the biggest punk-a$$ benifitors of digital mediums. Just a bunch of whining punks who have a knack for designing combat birds.

The other thing I would have to say is that in 20 years we should really take advantage of the fascinating technology which will be declassified about contemporary planes, but now we should take look back in history and make sure we don't miss out on the planes which have features and functions that are still new to us.

Take Falcon for example: has anyone really 'mastered' that sim? When I started playing it I was blown away at the suite that the pilots have at their disposal. There are many tens of planes out there that have something interesting about them, and now we can take advantage of the full scope that is now public knowledge.

Well that is just horrible.

They want to charge licensing fees for the plane? That's totally ridiculous.

The Japanese seem to get around it though. There are several games, such as Over-G fighters released with almost every single modern aircraft you can think of. F22,SU35 you name it. They haven't gotten sued, and the circumstances are all sketchy in that game, it's an unrealistic scenario.

I just feel like every single game that comes out is something that's been done before. The WWII thing is getting sickening, actually. Every FPS is a WWII. Every RTS is a WWII. Most of the latest combat flight sims...are WWII or before. I'm really longing for a part II to the DID line of sims ^_^.

I would have never thought the problem was licensing. I guess no one would want to bring out a game called the F39 Fighter with a slightly altered 3D model?

As for 'simulation' vs wild guesses, I'm from the Fun camp, and I think that the game could be fairly realistic with regard to physics modelling, missiles,weather effects etc. with these aircraft. Sure there would be some artistic liberties to fill in gaps, but I don't think it would detract from enjoyment too much.

Oh well, with the licensing issue it's an academic discussion anyway.

actually, if you don't use the companies' names, they can't win against you... but they can sue you until you have no more money left to defend yourself


what is more, as said by dante, nobody that can talk about it has any relevant data on "how it fonctions".. and those who do have that data can't talk about it


considering the rafale, the data will probably remain classified for decades (today, the mirage III data is still classified in france).

so, basically, making a real sim out of these planes is pretty much impossible right now

Hi JT team,

I don't pop in here much, but I just wanted to let you know how wonderful it is to read about developer interest in an F-4 or F-14 sim. A study sim of either of those planes would be absolutely fantastic.

Well Go ask Ubisoft about beig sued...Grumman Sued them badlly. for instance...

But Oh yeah I would kill for the best aproximation of a Raffale, a la F/A-18 witch evereybody knows is not even close to the real thing but the cockpick workload sure feels real. And its really interesting.

Grumman targeted Oleg. Oleg didn't know US law so he acted quickly out of fear. He signed a contractual agreement and was commited. He didn't call them on their bluff and Ubisoft took the pay off money out of Oleg's profit.

It has achieved the status not only of court cases, but also legislation. I guess the computer industry is a little behind the curve on this one, but the argument over the creation of models for the old fashioned 3D glue-and-plastic industry has been ongoing for a couple of years now. It's why it took so long for any models of the Stryker to be made, for example.

There have been two different issues here, one is between entirely privately-owned concepts such as "Union Pacific Railroad boxcar", and the other being that of the tax-payer-funded things like the M1026 Stryker ICV or F-22 Raptor. I'm not sure of the current status of licensing requirements for the private items like railroads, but HR607 is currently in the US Congress submitted by Congressman Andrews.
[url]http://www.hmahobby.com/pdfs/Military-Toy-Replica-Act.pdf[/url]

I -think- computer simulations should be covered by the text as well, though if a company wants to write in, it might be worth a shot.

NTM

It was the MiG-21FL that proved to be a fighter than the F-104, not the F. Theoritically, the MiG-21F was much more maneuverable than the F-104A, but in 1965 the lone MiG-21F/PF sqdn was not fully operational and played a minor role in the war. The MiG-21F never encountered the F-104 in combat( 1965) ,except *probably* once.
BY 1967 , the F & PF versions were retired and replaced by the FL version, which ended up scoring kills on PAF F-6s and PAF/Jordanian F-104s in the 1971 war.

1965:
India
IAF: Vampire FB.52, Ouragan, Mystere IVA,Hunter F.Mk.56/T.66, Gnat F.Mk.1, Canberra B(I)58/PR.57, T.Mk.54, MiG-21F(Type 74), MiG-21PF(Type 76)
IN: Hawker Sea Hawk FGA.6, Alize (from landbases)
PAF: F-86F Sabre(AIM-9 capable airframes were small),F-104A/B(all PAF F-104As had an internal gun), B-57B, RB-57F

1971
IAF : add Type S-22 Fitter(Su-7BMK), Hunter F.Mk.56A, MiG-21FL(Type 77), HF-24, Canberra B.66/B(I)12
IN: Hawker Sea Hawk FGA.6/Mk.100/Mk.101, Alize (from lNS Vikrant in Eastern Theater)
PAF: F-6A, Canadair Sabre Mk.6, Mirage IIIEP/RP, F-104As from 9 sqn RJAF, possibly 3 F-5As from Libyan AF

one interesting aspect of the wars was the use of An-12s by the IAF and C-130s by the PAF in carpet bombing role.
From the naval point of view,in 1971, PNS Ghazi was the first submarine to be sunk since WWII, and INS Khukri was the India's first warship loss at sea. Missiles were unleashed by Indian Navy OSA class missile boats and sunk two PN Warships(and a merchant ship, MV Venus Challenger carrying weapons to Pakistan) and set the Karachi harbour ablaze.