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#2096331 - 01/04/06 01:38 AM Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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PositiveG Offline
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I personally didn't find the CFS3 "game" that bad. Played it, liked the dynamic campaign aspect. Didn't have all the graphic issues like others, but I had a fast machine in the day.
Other sims came along and took my interest, but was this one that much of a stinker?

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#2096332 - 01/04/06 01:45 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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No105_ Savage Offline
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No, it wasn't, IMO. It definitely had problems, and was released unfinished (what else is new?) and did not get much support from the developers. It was released under the Microsoft umbrella, and the Microsoft force feedback sticks were incompatible with it (and the manual showed the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 1 stick as the default stick).

I think many simmers are "one-sim" guys who feel compelled to trash any sim that is not "their sim".

Over all, I liked FB better, but there was still a lot to likke about CFS3. My main reason for not spending more time with CFS3 was that I did not have much time to spare.

#2096333 - 01/04/06 02:26 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Plainsman Offline
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My main gripes with CFS3 was the horrid terrain and water graphics.They were/are truly offensive. The clouds, however, were excellent. So sky = good; ground = bad with CFS3 original. Then there were the chintzy cockpit graphics and the bugs. Added together, all these things caused people to yank out chest hairs, which is why some folks bad mouth the sim.

Then along came a couple of patches and an add-on from Shockwave called "Firepower." CFS3 was alive!!! Not only were many of the bugs squashed but Firepower enhanced the special effects tremendously, added fighters with better flight models, and added heavy bombers from different countries. The coup de grace was the addition of Fat Man and Little Boy (included in "Firepower"), the atomic bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Now you could drop them on Hitler! Gosh, CFS3 was suddenly a whole new sim!

OFF takes it all to still another level with a whole new war in a different era, but there was nothing really that bad about the original sim, especially if you had "Firepower."


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#2096334 - 01/04/06 02:38 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Jeff4999 Offline
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For some reason, I like CFS3 + Firepower better than the IL-2 line up (I still like that series, too). Just my opinion.


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#2096335 - 01/04/06 02:42 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
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Yes some of the cockpits were a bit shocking, amoung other things, I played for a good chunk of time. \:\)



#2096336 - 01/04/06 08:18 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Winding Man Offline
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Apart from some bugs and some nasty cockpits when CFS3 came out it ran like a dog - it was way ahead of its time but most users had to turn their terrain and scenery sliders down to 1 and still it stuttered.

Well even stutters aside with the sliders on 1 the terrain looks worse than CFS2 or even CFS1.

It was a horspower issue and it made CFS3 look crap.

It died.

Now of course we have powerful CPUs that run CFS3 as it was intended - it is an exceedingly powerful 3D engine and there is still a lot of room for more eyecandy etc.

WM


OBD Software
#2096337 - 01/04/06 10:46 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Tailgunner Offline
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Personally, I found CFS3 a bit of a confusing Sim.

The view options and helpers all pointed towards a sim for 'everyone', yet the PC needed to run it well was the domain of the hardcore simmer.

The plane-set was a mixed bag, with some very good, and some very..ungood! Cockpits were the same. In stock setup, I found the thing just didn't look and feel how I had expected. Flame effects were overdone, and damage modelling seemed rather odd. Some planes I expected to be durable just seemed to lose controls regularly.

There was a lot to like in the package, which is why I didn't throw it back.

Overall, I got the distinct impression that the thing needed another 6 months of work to finish up the details some more. Bring all the cockpits up to standard, improve the damage modelling and twek a few flight models for balance...that sort of thing.

As released, it bombed. I think it deserved to get the hammering it did. Doubly so when you look at Microsofts attitude towards support nad bugfixing. When you see what a bit of enthusiasm and hard work can do, you can see there WAS a good sim under there somewhere.... just at the time, hardly anyone actually had the opportunity to actually see it!


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#2096338 - 01/04/06 12:07 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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WidowmakerUK Offline
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Tailgunner has hit the nail smack on the head!


"When I shoot down an Englishman, My hunting instinct is satisfied for 20 minutes"... {Baron Manfred Von Richthofen)
#2096339 - 01/04/06 01:45 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
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I've always liked CFS3, and still fly it online and off. I do agree the water was miserable, and it had more than its share of glitches.
However, there's no arguing that their experience with this one plus sales performance resulted in the dropping of the CFS line, just when every indication was it was going to be a true challenger to Il-2 instead of an also-ran.
Frankly, if CFS3 had been closed like Il-2 is it would've been dead long ago. One of MS' few good decisions was to keep the 2 FS series open so it didn't end when you got tired of what came in the box.
OFF is merely the latest and greatest expression of that. \:\)


The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#2096340 - 01/04/06 02:26 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
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Quote:
Now of course we have powerful CPUs that run CFS3 as it was intended - it is an exceedingly powerful 3D engine and there is still a lot of room for more eyecandy etc.

WM
Now that's encouraging.



#2096341 - 01/04/06 03:09 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Manny_UK Offline
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Since it appears that there won't ever be a CFS4, are there any plans by the OFF team to give CFS3 itself a overhaul?? I know that some of the individual members have worked on improving it since it came out, but how about a concerted effort to bring it up to scratch?

There are obviously some talented guys working on OFF, and i would love to see what they could do with the stock CFS3...new aircraft, models/pits, fm's, fronts/campaigns etc. etc.

#2096342 - 01/04/06 05:30 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Murdock Offline
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http://www.medairwar.com/
not a redo of the original theatre, but it looks as promising as OFF.


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#2096343 - 01/04/06 08:10 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

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There's only so much that can be done without the source code, which MS will NEVER release I think it safe to say! \:\)
However, they're doing a lot with it and I'm glad I have it to enjoy these mods!


The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#2096344 - 01/04/06 10:57 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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II./JG1_Pritzl Offline
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I'll be honest, my first experience with CFS3 was utterly disgusting. Even when I finally could stomach the porridge-like terrain and ignored the numerous bugs, I just never felt like I was actually flying. The best I can simulate it to is standing still and having the world around you move if that makes any sense.

All the pre-launch hype didn't help either. I was fortunate enough to have experienced it on my roommate's PC so I wasn't out of any money personally, but I think I would have been livid if I had paid for it.

That said, I'm looking forward to trying OFF since I now have the vector expansion and the new terrain is head and shoulders above the original. The best part is I'm getting it free from a squadmate who has long since given up on it. \:\)


"We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." Dwight D. Eisenhower
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#2096345 - 01/05/06 03:05 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Plainsman Offline
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"Utterly disgusting" is a bit strong, don't you think, JG1? Utterly disappointing, frustrating, maddening, yes. I don't know about disgusting. Finding a rodent in your house is disgusting. \:\)


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#2096346 - 01/05/06 07:11 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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HeinzBaby Offline
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So damn impressed with OFF (using the CFS3 engine),
I'm sorely tempted to fly a Tiffie campaign in CFS3..

But first, there's more Boshe over Flanders to deal with \:D


Heia Safari
#2096347 - 01/05/06 09:06 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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WidowmakerUK Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by HeinzBaby:
So damn impressed with OFF (using the CFS3 engine),
I'm sorely tempted to fly a Tiffie campaign in CFS3..

But first, there's more Boshe over Flanders to deal with \:D
Tiffie Campaign?...Steady on mate...Thats only got Single wing! \:D


"When I shoot down an Englishman, My hunting instinct is satisfied for 20 minutes"... {Baron Manfred Von Richthofen)
#2096348 - 01/05/06 11:43 PM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Ivan Putski Offline
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My first impression of CFS3 was utter disappointment, I was expecting a vast improvement over CFS2. I think one of the things was as mentioned, not many people had the cpu to run it. The scenery was awful, some of the cocpits were terrible,( same goes for the P-47 pit in IL2), and the other bugs mentiond. As the computers caught up with the sim, it ran much better, with new scenery, aircraft repaints, and other improvements such as Firepower, it really is quite nice. Now comes along Over Flanders Fields, and takes it up another notch. \:\)


"Is he?....Yeah....Nothings moving but,his watch"

Ivan
"Half Bader"
Putski
#2096349 - 01/06/06 01:31 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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Plainsman Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ivan Putski:
My first impression of CFS3 was utter disappointment, I was expecting a vast improvement over CFS2. I think one of the things was as mentioned, not many people had the cpu to run it. The scenery was awful, some of the cocpits were terrible,( same goes for the P-47 pit in IL2), and the other bugs mentiond. As the computers caught up with the sim, it ran much better, with new scenery, aircraft repaints, and other improvements such as Firepower, it really is quite nice. Now comes along Over Flanders Fields, and takes it up another notch. \:\)
Uh...that's what I said. \:\)


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#2096350 - 01/06/06 02:03 AM Re: Why all the original CFS3 bashing?  
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II./JG1_Pritzl Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plainsman:
"Utterly disgusting" is a bit strong, don't you think, JG1? Utterly disappointing, frustrating, maddening, yes. I don't know about disgusting. Finding a rodent in your house is disgusting. \:\)
Actually, it's mild compared to what I felt at the time. Time has mellowed my memories of the experience and numbed the pain. \:D

Seriously, I was just trying to answer the question and the terrain and how it seemed to move instead of my plane actually made me nauseus. Hence disgusting is the perfect term for what I experienced. It was disappointing too if that helps. \:\)

Yes, I could have stuck it out I guess and tweaked a bit more, downloaded some add-ons, etc. but I couldn't be bothered esp. since it was my roommate's copy. Though he quickly offered to pawn it off to me, it ultimately went back to the store.

As a side note, my room-mate bought it because the danged store clerk sold him on it after I had interested him in flight sims with a quick whirl in IL-2. Result? He has never purchased another flight sim and probably never will.


"We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." Dwight D. Eisenhower
II./JG1 Oesau
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