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#1769231 - 04/28/06 09:55 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 40
RazorBlade Offline
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RazorBlade  Offline
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Netherlands
Quote:
Originally posted by hansundfranz:
Still it is a fact that F4s damage modelling is primitive and that is true for all flavours of F4.

What kind of damage you take is purely random and does not depend on bullet placement for example
I would say that if you are hit with almost every type of weapon that the impacts of the pieces of metal are pretty radomly placed.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#1769232 - 04/28/06 11:22 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
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Lucky_1 Offline
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Lucky_1  Offline
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Mehlingen, Germany
Quote:
Originally posted by m20keeper:
As a USAF Flight Engineer for 7 years, I can tell you that you will never get a USAF officer off his/her arse to ever look at the outside of his/her jet!
Thats not true.

#1769233 - 04/29/06 12:01 AM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 901
hansundfranz Offline
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hansundfranz  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 901
Germany
Come on Razorbalde you have been flying F4 long enough to realise that F4s damage modell is not a dmaage modell but simply rolling the dice.

How likely is it that a missile hit knocks out your HUD without any other effects?

Also there is zero connection between different damage. Hydraulic leaks never lead to the oil catching fire for example

#1769234 - 04/29/06 01:29 AM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 42
Cruz Offline
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Cruz  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 42
Argentina
Quote:
Originally posted by m20keeper:
As a USAF Flight Engineer for 7 years, I can tell you that you will never get a USAF officer off his/her arse to ever look at the outside of his/her jet!
Like Lucky_1 told you..,
WHAT YOU SAID IT'S NOT TRUE..
It's very usual do an inspection when the aircraft presents some failures.., or how could you check a leak oil if in your emergency panel is the light on..? if it's only a fuse failure..? you will eject from the plane BECAUSE A FUSE..! Only could be checked by a VISUAL INSPECTION, when other aircraft fly around you.
Sincerelly
Cruz


#1769235 - 04/29/06 01:57 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,222
Bard Offline
Member
Bard  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,222
Victoria BC Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Operator:
Quote:
Originally posted by Laugher:
Quote:
Sometimes I get hit sooo many times, that I get worried and check with the camera outside and the plane is still spotless.
That's pretty realistic, going to the camera view outside your plane to check for damage. I think that is USAF SOP if you take a hit you climb out of your cockpit and look around to see if there is damage.
Oh please gimme a break. You're sitting in front of a computer monitor jerking around your joystick and you want to rag on others for realism?

You've got to be kidding me.
WHO'S ragging on WHO operator?


What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:

"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson

"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman

NEVER ENGAGE STUPID.
#1769236 - 04/29/06 01:58 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,222
Bard Offline
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Bard  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,222
Victoria BC Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by m20keeper:
As a USAF Flight Engineer for 7 years, I can tell you that you will never get a USAF officer off his/her arse to ever look at the outside of his/her jet!
LOL!


What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:

"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson

"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman

NEVER ENGAGE STUPID.
#1769237 - 04/29/06 03:08 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 31
Wardo Offline
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Wardo  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 31
I would certainly like if all planes had damage modelled like in IL-2, but some of our planes don't even have textures! Would love to see things flying away, bullet holes, and everything else, but I know it's not gonna happen unless the next Falcon gets 100 artists working on the textures and models, but I know that's not gonna happen either.

#1769238 - 04/29/06 05:20 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 177
suntrace1 Offline
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suntrace1  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 177
Sun
Mig Alley has a better damage model and it's a very old sim.

#1769239 - 04/29/06 08:23 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,169
MigBuster Offline
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MigBuster  Offline
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Posts: 2,169
UK
I cant see how it wouldnt be possible to add this in - It would only require modifying or adding in extra modules - assuming F4 was written properly in the first place with a modular structure.
It would take ages to do, it may affect stability and it is obviously not of LP's list of things to spend time on.

For now the best we can hope for is turning wheels \:\)


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#1769240 - 04/30/06 05:04 AM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
m20keeper Offline
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m20keeper  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
Ocktermockti
Quote:
Originally posted by Cruz:
Quote:
Originally posted by m20keeper:
As a USAF Flight Engineer for 7 years, I can tell you that you will never get a USAF officer off his/her arse to ever look at the outside of his/her jet!
Like Lucky_1 told you..,
WHAT YOU SAID IT'S NOT TRUE..
It's very usual do an inspection when the aircraft presents some failures.., or how could you check a leak oil if in your emergency panel is the light on..? if it's only a fuse failure..? you will eject from the plane BECAUSE A FUSE..! Only could be checked by a VISUAL INSPECTION, when other aircraft fly around you.
Sincerelly
Cruz
\:D And as you can see they dont have senses of humor either...and the answers to your questions are all the same: You ask the enlisted Flight Engineer if you have a problem. And he will tell you what to do!

Oh and ejection is for cowards...you gotta ride it in man!
\:D


P.S. in case you can't tell I'm jerking your chain! "Lean Forward is just a nice way of saying 'Bend over!'"


"The good lord says he can get me out of this...but he's pretty sure your F*@KED!"
#1769241 - 04/30/06 01:45 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 441
Novum Offline
Member
Novum  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 441
SWEDEN
imo i feel that grafical eyecandy is less important.. when there are tiny bugs here and there..

Sims are realy more about "the feel"


Peace Means Practis
#1769242 - 04/30/06 02:31 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,346
Toonsis Offline
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Toonsis  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,346
Orange County, New York
rolling wheels !...I will never play this sim again

#1769243 - 04/30/06 02:37 PM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 324
CloudyIFR Offline
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CloudyIFR  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 324
MT
Quote:
Originally posted by Novum:

Sims are realy more about "the feel"
Suspension of Disbelief!

Nothing closer to combat than Falcon 4.0:AF


My Flight Simulator Files:
http://www.myhome.tailwindgliders.com/SimFiles.htm

MSgt, USAF Retired
Commercial Pilot
6800+ hours
#1769244 - 05/02/06 08:42 AM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 730
Raptor One Offline
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Raptor One  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 730
New York, NY, USA
The graphical aspect of a "damage model" is pretty much separate from the actual damage modeling itself. To model damage properly, you'd have to study the systems of an F-16 very carefully from a -1 manual or something and then program in realistic fault behavior patterns. This is the kind of simulator that pilots train on all the time before getting in the real jet. They get into the simulator and get various faults on top of faults thrown at them at worst possible times like take-off, landing, and so forth.

While I'm sure there's a good flight model and maybe even a 360° dome to display graphics in some simulators, I think they're still used primarily for "procedural" training. For example, you might use the simulator to practice your HOTAS and switchology skills during dogfights, but probably not so much for BFM training itself. You'll want to actually go up in the jet and experience the disorienting forces and sensations associated with combat maneuvers. When you do go up in the jet to practice that aspect of combat though, you want everything else to be second nature. That's what military grade simulators are for.

Falcon 4 is concerned with simulating every aspect of fighter combat from the war outside your jet to tiny details inside your jet. You might get everything you ever wanted for a PC combat flight simulation given 20 or so years of consistent development on a single product. That's assuming you have a relatively small coding team which is generally the case for PC sims. To just add a detailed damage model to Falcon 4 right now would take a small team of experienced coders several months I'm guessing. That's JUST working on the damage model full time. Forget about focusing on anything else. It might take longer... I'm not really sure. It depends on the level of experience the coders have with this type of fault modeling.

-Raptor

#1769245 - 05/02/06 09:49 AM Re: Any hope for a better damage model in the next patch?  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,497
Wilko Offline
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Wilko  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,497
Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by Operator:
Quote:
Originally posted by Laugher:
Quote:
Sometimes I get hit sooo many times, that I get worried and check with the camera outside and the plane is still spotless.
That's pretty realistic, going to the camera view outside your plane to check for damage. I think that is USAF SOP if you take a hit you climb out of your cockpit and look around to see if there is damage.
Oh please gimme a break. You're sitting in front of a computer monitor jerking around your joystick and you want to rag on others for realism?

You've got to be kidding me.
LOL.. love it


You take it easy.. And have a nice day smile

Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "Holy sh!t...What a Ride!!"
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