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#1769171 - 04/26/06 12:27 PM Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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-Axe- Offline
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I haven't seen any mention lately of being able to get a couple of guys on a home lan connected to someone on the internet. I fly with a bud on the internet and my at home son wants to join us. Will we get this ability before Falcon 5.0 without having to rely on Hamachi?

thanks

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#1769172 - 04/26/06 02:09 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Teej Offline
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What makes you think you'll get it in Falcon 5? \:\)

Your best bet is seeing if you can get a 2nd external IP on your internet connection (talk to your provider...many will do it for a few bucks a month) and then you and your kid can each have your own and (if set up properly) should work fine.

Bandwidth might quickly become an issue if you're using teamspeak though. A year of testing has found Falcon happiest when it is set to 128 up and 256 down - AND - you can actually do those speeds on top of whatever else is going on. Throw 2 people on one line and figure that's 256 / 512 worth of bandwidth used. If you're using teamspeak, is there a comfortable margin on top of that 256/512 for teamspeak?


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#1769173 - 04/26/06 03:17 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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C3PO Offline
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Hi -- no plans for WAN / LAN for AF.


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#1769174 - 04/26/06 06:07 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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TangoShadow Offline
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Hi,

This problem isn't isolated to F4:AF - it is down to the fact that we expect to run many computers off a single external IP address. This instantly produces problems for port allocation/availability on the public side of the network, and why many games can't be concurrently connected from the same LAN to an Internet server(s).

The only solution for any game that is in this situation is as Teej suggested - 1 external IP address per host on the LAN that you wish to use. There is no other real solution available, only work-arounds. Game devs could help by altering the way their games connect to servers. Some seem to use an inordinate amount of ports, whilst others suffice with a couple.

--TangoShadow

#1769175 - 04/26/06 08:49 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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-Axe- Offline
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thanks guys, especially C3PO for the straight info on AF. I can focus on a work-around knowing that, much appreciated bud!

Teej, hehe, re: Falcon 5.0 I figure anybody who flys Falcon is an optimist in more ways than one!!!

thanks for the up/down info too, I can do 209 up and about 800 down tested.

thanks Vulcan!


I'll see if I can get another ip address, that would be just fine also.

#1769176 - 04/27/06 02:04 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Rebel801st Offline
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Hi Axe - I have the same issue, with my son wanting to fly with me via a LAN connection and also be on the internet.

I have not tried this myself, but if you have a modem/router you can create an internet multiplayer mission/campaign with you as a server. Then get your son to connect to you via the LAN using the multiplayer "internet" option and using your PC's LAN IP address. You should then be able to get your friend on the internet to connect to you using your external (internet) IP address.

In theory it should work - I have tested LAN multiplayer using the "internet" option in F4:AF and that works OK - note also that I use a fixed IP address for my LAN.

I guess the only issues are that you need enough bandwidth on you internet connection and you must always be the server to enable both LAN and WAN to connect.

Hope this helps

#1769177 - 04/27/06 03:34 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Hi Rebel50

A while ago I tried something like that but not sure if it was exactly the same thing. Never could get all clients in the chat at the same time. I'll give it another go and see using your method.

thanks

#1769178 - 04/27/06 04:13 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Teej Offline
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Rebel: That will not work.

The problem is that falcon is peer to peer. Every client must be able to talk to every other client as well as the server. If you have 2 machines "inside" the router, then one of them will not receive info from external players.

This is not like most games using a "client server" model wherein everyone only has to talk to the server.

Axe:

Even if you found a workable solution, connecting 2 players through a 209kbit uplink is iffy at best, especially if you're using voice comms of some sort.

Any lag you caused would not just affect you, but would be visited upon everyone else on the server.

Falcon definitely has a "weakest link" problem.


#6 - Opposing / Left Solo
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#1769179 - 04/27/06 09:06 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Thanks Teej - as I said I have not tried the idea yet - and I was unaware of the peer to peer issue - so yes if Falcon is set up this way then it would not work.

IIRC Superpack 3 introduced a client-server multiplayer code, where the server updated all objects - I assumed that this was also avilable in F4:AF.

Ok Thanks

#1769180 - 04/27/06 07:05 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Teej Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rebel50:

IIRC Superpack 3 introduced a client-server multiplayer code, where the server updated all objects - I assumed that this was also avilable in F4:AF.
Completely separate.

Yes, F4AF dedicated servers do handle all objects. That's not the same as managing all comms.

Multiplay wouldn't work "your way" in SP either.


#6 - Opposing / Left Solo
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#1769181 - 04/28/06 06:16 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by TangoShadow:
Hi,

This problem isn't isolated to F4:AF - it is down to the fact that we expect to run many computers off a single external IP address. This instantly produces problems for port allocation/availability on the public side of the network, and why many games can't be concurrently connected from the same LAN to an Internet server(s).
This isn't entirely true. Most routers have NAT capabilities which take care of this for you. The problem is when a game uses network coding that doesn't take advantage of NAT and/or doesn't allow for client configuration of the ports used.

#1769182 - 05/05/06 05:03 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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-Axe- Offline
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Rebel50-

Tonight I established a lan/wan connection. Using Hamachi, me and son connected to a friend who was the host. The dogfight went well, and the campaign looked like it was but after getting airborne the host had a ctd. That may be related to 1.06 but I'll test again tomorrow night.

If you and son wanted to connect to a friend who's willing to install Hamachi, that's a way to do it.

Hamachi's pretty cool. I like it.

Axe

#1769183 - 05/05/06 07:08 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Rebel801st Offline
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Thanks Axe - I have heard of Hamachi, but not tried it out yet - is it difficult to setup/configure ?

I have also patched up to 1.06, and from the talk around the forums, there is an issue with multiplayer and server crashes.

Also I don't have a very high bandwidth connection 512/128 atm (may upgrade soon)- what are you using?

Thanks again for the tip - if it all works out we should get together and have a father/son dogfight sometime \:\)

Rebel

#1769184 - 05/05/06 12:21 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Hi Rebel50,
Hamachi is a breeze to install and set up. I am very impressed with their install tutorial for simplicity and brevity. (ya know there's a lot to be said about brevity!) haha. Anyhow, the install process guides you step by step saying do this....click next, do this....click next for hmmm maybe 6 or so steps and that includes a test Hamachi connection to their "test" sever just to give you a first go at it. It's extremely well thought out and very simple and short.

In a nutshell, you wind up with a new icon in your tooltray to activate when you want to use it.
During setup you receive a special Hamachi ip that you will use withing AF. All clients connect to the hosts Hamachi ip once everyone has activated it. When through just leave Hamachi and go back to your normal connection, it's ready.

Regarding upload capabilites, I'm sure Teej's recommendations are absolutely valid, but I will say that I have flown over 200 online campaign missions in AF using 56k up/down and other than it taking longer to receive the campaign data the connections were excellent and have been able to comlete several 2 ship online campaigns at that client speed. I even completed one while I was on dial-up before I finally got dsl(now at 1024/256). You may be ok with you and son both at 56k up, but with voice it will be cuttin it close. If you have the option to increase the upload speed, let me tell you that father and son flying online together is great and long overdue. Nothing like it. Interestingly, my bud's (the usual host) father has recently joined us in our multiplayer. He lives in another city and my bud is so glad to have something to share with his dad. Now we have 2 dad's flying with 2 son's. Haha so very cool.

re: 106 mp stability, roger but it will be fixed soon is my bet.

any questions let me know. want to test it today with me in AF? can do! I'm home all day.
Axe

#1769185 - 05/05/06 12:37 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Hi Rebel50,

a small correction....... the Hamachi icon is on the desktop, and once activated can be minimized to the tool-tray prior to entering AF. It does not run until you tell it to.

Axe

#1769186 - 05/06/06 05:33 AM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Rebel801st Offline
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Thanks for the info Axe, it is much appreciated. I will check out the Hamachi site and give it a try. I am GMT +9.30 so that may make it tricky to catch up, send me a PM of your GMT time (or location) and I will try and catch up over the weekend if possible.

Rgr on 1.06 fix - I really dont want to roll back to 1.05, the new stuff is too cool, so I hope a fix is forthcoming - did anyone say patch 1.06A \:\)

Rebel

#1769187 - 05/07/06 03:00 PM Re: Will we get lan/wan for AF ?  
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Rebel50,

I sent you a PM.


Axe


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