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#1768391 - 03/29/06 07:43 PM On line flights  
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Cruz Offline
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Cruz  Offline
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Argentina
I wisht to know what kind of connection works fine with AF.
In our Squadron some guys had Dial Up, fiber (cable) and ADSL connections for Internet access, and connect to Falcon AF via HAMACHI LAN, and for voice use the Team Speak.
Sometimes during the flight (4 pilots) we had the simulation "PAUSED" (yes, like pressing the "P" on keyboard) for a few seconds, "pause - fly - pause - fly.." during all the flight.
For that reasson I wish to know what kind of conncections works better..., and what bandwith. Do you know if there is published anything about this...?
Sincerelly

Cruz
Falcon Wing
ECV 56 (VFS)


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#1768392 - 03/29/06 08:17 PM Re: On line flights  
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Teej Offline
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Based on nearly a year's worth of playing AF (and mixed success in attempts at earlier Falcons)...

The "sweet spot" on connections seems to be at about 128 up / 256 down. It is best if the server has a _healthy_ margin above that, but it does not need to be a total of the client's settings - Falcon doesn't work like that. Below those speeds, performance falls off quickly. Similarly, there's very little gain (except in the initial connection process) in performance by using higher speeds.

The default speed (33 / 33) will absolutely KILL a game.

This pretty much puts dialup out of the question.

If:

1. All "clients" and server/host are _physically capable_ (run a speed test) of at least 128 up / 256 down (preferably a bit higher to accommodate teamspeak) AND
2. All "clients" SET their speeds to 128 up / 256 down AND
3. The "server" (whether dedicated or not) sets speeds "one notch" slower than their max (but no lower than 128/256) AND
4. You divide the host's upload by 64 and keep the number of clients preferably at or below that result - ie if the person to be the server gets a 390 on the speed test, set the upload to 256 and try not to connect more than 4 clients (I forget if there's a 384 option or if it geos right from 256 to 512....). You might get away with an additional client or two...perhaps even host / 32 for TE/dogfight....but it will be pretty obvious when you've exceeded the limit - you get pausing and 2x indicators.

#4 is the most flexible - #1-3 are VERY strongly encouraged. The server/host's processor speed is probably more important than bandwidth

That should get you a pretty good game of Falcon. If the same person is hosting TS as is hosting the falcon game...you need more bandwidth.


#6 - Opposing / Left Solo
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#1768393 - 03/29/06 08:21 PM Re: On line flights  
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TangoShadow Offline
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Hi,

EDIT: Read the post by Teej, above (it wasn't there when I posted).

--TangoShadow

#1768394 - 03/29/06 09:14 PM Re: On line flights  
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Teej Offline
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Further info for anyone unfortunate enough to be trying this with a dialup line...

1: A "56k" modem is _not_ 56 in both directions - it's download only. Upload best case is 33 (or 28, depending on the modem).

2: Getting a full 56 connection isn't exactly a given. So while your "theoretical" best case might be 33 up / 56 down, in the real world you're probably really seeing less than 26 up / 33 down most of the time, occasionally hitting 56 down if the data type allows sufficient compression.

Thus, a dialup connection, on anything but its best day, cannot keep up with _just falcon_...let alone putting teamspeak into the mix.

Once you wrap your brain around that, you must remember that the above failings are even more damaging in Falcon than any other game. Whether you're running with a "dedicated" server or not, Falcon is always a peer to peer network. Other people's Falcons will be sitting and waiting for the data that a modem is pumping up at 26kbit or worse...and as C3PO has said, Falcon balances to the lowest common denominator which means 1 dialup (or bad data rate setting in Falcon's connection screen) screws up the game for everybody, not just the dialup user.

Edit: Forgot one more point - Even assuming a perfect connection of 56 up and 33 down...you'll never get both at once. The modems technology has a "max throughput" of about 63kbit...which means that if you HAVE a 56kbit connection, and you're actually downloading at 56kbit...you have all of 7kbit left for upload.

Modems may appear to work for Falcon...briefly.


#6 - Opposing / Left Solo
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#1768395 - 03/30/06 03:13 PM Re: On line flights  
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Cruz Offline
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Cruz  Offline
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Argentina
Quote:
Originally posted by Teej:
[QB]

The default speed (33 / 33) will absolutely KILL a game.

This pretty much puts dialup out of the question.
Teej THANKS A LOT, now I understand a bit more.., but (there is always a BUT):

How could it be, that in previous patches the connection works PERFECT..!? I was flying so close to my leader..! so close, that we don't experience a bit of lag.
In F4 + Spx or F4 + BMS we flew better than this AF + 1.0.5 and..
I hope, they fix this problem..., that they really improve the MP for AF.. if don't.. in this point would be a step-back (specially for me that connect via Dialup)
Thanks a lot.

Cruz
Falcon Wing
ECV-56 (VFS)


#1768396 - 03/30/06 03:26 PM Re: On line flights  
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- Ice Offline
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I'm on DSL, but can only manage about around 128 down, around 200-300 up during "moderate" hours --- this drops to 88 down, 150-200 up during "peak" hours --- but I can manage around 300-380 down, 300-350 up during "off-peak" hours here... fortunately, "off-peak" hours here is around the time others in the USA fly.

My question is - do I have to constantly maintain 256down/128up while in flight, or is it enough that my internet connection is "capable" of that speed?


- Ice
#1768397 - 03/30/06 04:51 PM Re: On line flights  
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Teej Offline
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Cruz:

Everything's a tradeoff.

First...When were you flying SPx and BMS in hamachi? Hamachi is new. Not to say that you can't fly the old versions now, but you talked about "before"...implying past....

Second: Hamachi adds overhead in the form of longer ping times and larger packets (decreasing your available bandwidth) because of the way the data gets encapsulated in the VPN wrapper that hamachi provides. None of the individual effects are large, but hamachi does use some memory to run in, processor to handle the encryption, increased packet size to provide the VPN routing info, etc. It adds up.

Third: Were ALL the same people you are having connection issues with now flying when everything was "so great"? One bad apple of a connection kills everyone.

Fourth: Many of the LP guys were "SPx" devs. Not all. There are many things that either LP either had to legally, or wanted to, redo so in a sense there was a "backstep" taken from some of the things that had been done in SP / BMS.

The most critical point though...if _anyone_ has a connection that is less than optimal, it will drag everyone else down. If ANY of the players have filesharing going, a wife/girlfriend/parent surfing the web, misconfigured firewall/antivirus etc that will all have a severe effect on your gameplay.

One thing that LP did that may have made it worse for modems was the QOS type management they added. Seems to increase the bandwidth baseline a bit. I see an average combined (in + out) around 80kbit most of the time.

# ecie: Hard to say, really. As I said above, you're still above the average traffic I've seen...but I'm honestly not sure what kind of peaks occur..

Teej


#6 - Opposing / Left Solo
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#1768398 - 03/30/06 05:19 PM Re: On line flights  
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Rebel801st Offline
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Teej, when you say 128/256 do you mean actual or theoretical up/down load speeds - my actual connection checks out at about 80 up & 440 down.

I have already posted un another thread, about getting on-line and I am concerned about my "actual" connection speeds and of course the impact on other users.

Rebel

#1768399 - 03/30/06 05:20 PM Re: On line flights  
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Cruz Offline
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Cruz  Offline
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Argentina
Quote:
Originally posted by Teej:


First...When were you flying SPx and BMS in hamachi? Hamachi is new. Not to say that you can't fly the old versions now, but you talked about "before"...implying past....

Teej
Teej, may be I don't explain it properly, what I want to say is that, when we flew Falcon (not AF) in Spx or BMS was in direct connection Pc to PC, without hamachi..
Thanks a lot again.. I had more clear the online game in Falcon AF..!
Cheers

Cruz
Falcon Wing
ECV-56 (VFS)


#1768400 - 03/30/06 06:10 PM Re: On line flights  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rebel50:
Teej, when you say 128/256 do you mean actual or theoretical up/down load speeds - my actual connection checks out at about 80 up & 440 down.
Never set Falcon's speeds higher than you're _actually_ capable of handling.

If you've got 80kbps real world and you set Falcon to 128 it will work fine at the menus and such. However, once you're in the jet and start having a lot of data to transmit, Falcon will write checks your ISP can't cash, packets will be dropped and the result is warps, repeating voices, etc.

I'm not about to make you any promises, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had a positive experience setting 56 / 256. Unlike a "56k" modem, you actually CAN achieve 56kbit up, even accounting for teamspeak. A 56k modem would most likely get ~ 45kbit down and 20kbit up.

It's worth a shot...


#6 - Opposing / Left Solo
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#1768401 - 03/31/06 03:06 AM Re: On line flights  
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Rebel801st Offline
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Adelaide - Sth Australia
Did some broadband speed tests today on my 128/512 connection, measured 100 up and 390 down to the US (Speakeasy) and 104 up and 414 down from the UK (ADSL Guide).

Those speeds look promising for an initial test at this stage - will need to get a mike/headset combo for Teamspeak.

Thanks for your input

Rebel


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