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#1767910 - 04/06/06 04:44 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Porkchop Offline
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Hardcore:
_______________________________________________
"As for helo physics, they're excellent in OFP."
_______________________________________________

We talkin' about the same game? They must have fixed it in some mod or other. The stock helos in
OFP,....well they left some to be desired IMHO.

Everybody else: Lets hope LP comes up with the Novus Ordo of flight sims to meet even a fraction of the expectations out there

As for 'ol Porkchop, I'll be happy with a good solid sim that gets decent frame rates, and is fun. Yep fun factor trumps all in my world. When a sim turns into a religion, that's when I part company. F-4 AF to me is fun. More of the same or similar, works for me. Rotary wing fun would be awsome.

I'm with the rest of you guys on SF. The "dongle" thing that Steel Beasts is implimenting beats the hell out of SF IMO. Don't need any dormant virus/spyware/crashware, sneaky pete, crypto-maniacal, voodoo, spankware on my poor ol machine. Ity's flakey enough without such non-sense, especially with some leagalbabble stating the the publisher, developer, distributer, or anybody remotely responsible for wrecking your machine with their product cannot be held liable.

It's too bad too cuz that add on looks great. Guess I'll just have to wait for Whirlwind over Vietnam. Looks like a long damned wait too.


I love it when a plan comes together. ~ H. Smith "The A-Team".
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#1767911 - 04/06/06 09:46 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Heinzi Offline
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I agree helo physics are weird in ofp. They are totally different and strange compared to all heli sims I played. Like flying with a partially working autopilot.
The big strenght of the ofp helicopters is the fun to make troop insertions and coop play with troops.

#1767912 - 04/06/06 04:52 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Well, let me be more specific for the sake of those that keep bringing up FM's and stock etc...

Forget OFP, forget Falcon,

Make a new sim using the best concepts (realisms/dynamics) of OFP and Falcon, combine them and let's eat!

Stead of spawning as a jet, you spawn as a man beside your jet/helo/tank. Your vehicle gets wasted later, and you survive, go find something else to do, use your head. Either wait for your extraction, or figure out your own. Maybe work some sabotage in there.

How many times do you go down over the strip you're bombing? Lots.

So you're dangling in your shoot, watching the enemy amass a small search team to roll out to your location, hunt you down n shoot you dead. But, with the help of the others in the air or W.H.Y., they're slowed down a bit to allow you a chance to land and get to a safe zone. You make it. Now, either call in and wait out an extraction, or see if you can make it to that ammo dump you'd noticed in the recon, 5 miles north, attempt to grab a few sticks of C-4 and a detonator, some guns n' sneak up to the 12 A-124's or MiG29's on the tarmac and set a bomb on one to blow them all. Or maybe the tower, or the ammo dump it's self. Maybe lase a target from the trees in the hills. Come home to medals for acts beyond the call of duty.

Who said anything about Air Force? Who said we gotta stick to or use the exact game code's or weaknesses of these two games. Just the best of the available first person and flight sim 'concepts'.


Hardcore� - Remember me?
#1767913 - 04/06/06 05:34 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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"Everybody knows you run faster with a knike" should never appear in a Falcon FAQ IMHO. Please.

Tx. \:\)


Novice
69th VFW
AF fun flights
#1767914 - 04/06/06 07:16 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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hansundfranz Offline
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Hardcore, how much time do you expect to run around FPS like, ho much time would you spent in a jet, how much time in a chopper, how much time in a tank, how much time manning SAMs how much time in choppers how much time in other vehicles?

Quote:
So you're dangling in your shoot, watching the enemy amass a small search team to roll out to your location, hunt you down n shoot you dead. But, with the help of the others in the air or W.H.Y., they're slowed down a bit to allow you a chance to land and get to a safe zone. You make it. Now, either call in and wait out an extraction, or see if you can make it to that ammo dump you'd noticed in the recon, 5 miles north, attempt to grab a few sticks of C-4 and a detonator, some guns n' sneak up to the 12 A-124's or MiG29's on the tarmac and set a bomb on one to blow them all. Or maybe the tower, or the ammo dump it's self. Maybe lase a target from the trees in the hills. Come home to medals for acts beyond the call of duty.
This alone shows how foolish the whole idea is.

Come on that is not realistic at all and if game mechanica are changed to make it possible yoll have 12 year old FPS kiddies running around on your airbase all the time blowing up jets on the ground.

Even combining tanks sim and flight sim is a foolish idea. it would not be much fun to get plikned from angels 20 in your tank. Why do you think there is no air in Steel beasts?

The only think that could possibly be done is combine flightsim and strategy game but even that is not worth the effort imho.

Pick the game/ sim for what you want to do.

if it floats your boat you can always waste countells hours in OFP every tíme you get shot down.

#1767915 - 04/06/06 07:39 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Ace Flares Offline
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UK
A sim with a couple of planes, Lockon:FC's AFM and graphics with Falcon:AF's dynamic campaign system and avionics modelling. Something like a USMC sim featuring the Harrier AV8B II and F/A18 Hornet (maybe throw in a Cobra helo \:\) ).
On a bigger scale, a persistent online sim like WWII Battleground Europe, but with modern jets, helos, ground vehicles etc would get my monthly subscription.

#1767916 - 04/06/06 08:16 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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joeblow Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by hansundfranz:
Hardcore, how much time do you expect to run around FPS like, ho much time would you spent in a jet, how much time in a chopper, how much time in a tank, how much time manning SAMs how much time in choppers how much time in other vehicles?

Quote:
So you're dangling in your shoot, watching the enemy amass a small search team to roll out to your location, hunt you down n shoot you dead. But, with the help of the others in the air or W.H.Y., they're slowed down a bit to allow you a chance to land and get to a safe zone. You make it. Now, either call in and wait out an extraction, or see if you can make it to that ammo dump you'd noticed in the recon, 5 miles north, attempt to grab a few sticks of C-4 and a detonator, some guns n' sneak up to the 12 A-124's or MiG29's on the tarmac and set a bomb on one to blow them all. Or maybe the tower, or the ammo dump it's self. Maybe lase a target from the trees in the hills. Come home to medals for acts beyond the call of duty.
This alone shows how foolish the whole idea is.

Come on that is not realistic at all and if game mechanica are changed to make it possible yoll have 12 year old FPS kiddies running around on your airbase all the time blowing up jets on the ground.

Even combining tanks sim and flight sim is a foolish idea. it would not be much fun to get plikned from angels 20 in your tank. Why do you think there is no air in Steel beasts?

The only think that could possibly be done is combine flightsim and strategy game but even that is not worth the effort imho.

Pick the game/ sim for what you want to do.

if it floats your boat you can always waste countells hours in OFP every tíme you get shot down.
In real life, there are 24 year olds running around tryin to blow up your aircraft on the tarmac too - that's war. What's your problem if they are 12, 24 or 44, your job is to make sure they don't - period - that's war...

And as you fly around plinking tanks in the current AF, how many of the hundreds do you ever actually see or hit in a given hour of flight time, verses, a given hour in tank time? Being in a tank is dangerous. Being in an F-16 is dangerous, but in any case there are things you can do to lessen the danger, and your arguement is very weak.

"Oh, the 12 year olds will get us!"

In a sim like that, you can stick to the F-16 emphatically, or chose a tank or jeep, or chopper. I'd probably bang around in all for 12 hours every single day to answer your first series of questions. And if I had only an hour, I'd use an hour.

As for age groups, you probably wouldn't find a lot of 12 year olds interested in the F-16, and if all aspects of the sim were as complex as Falcon, you wouldn't find many interested in anything more than foot soldiers and at the same time extend an option to learn to the 12 year old with interest. Might even change some small part of the world. Why would you ***** about that?

Tell ya what, if someone comes up with it, I'll be there. And you say you won't?

You'd be there -if it were done right.


Hardcore� - Remember me?
#1767917 - 04/06/06 08:28 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Novum Offline
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SWEDEN
Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hansundfranz:
Hardcore, how much time do you expect to run around FPS like, ho much time would you spent in a jet, how much time in a chopper, how much time in a tank, how much time manning SAMs how much time in choppers how much time in other vehicles?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you're dangling in your shoot, watching the enemy amass a small search team to roll out to your location, hunt you down n shoot you dead. But, with the help of the others in the air or W.H.Y., they're slowed down a bit to allow you a chance to land and get to a safe zone. You make it. Now, either call in and wait out an extraction, or see if you can make it to that ammo dump you'd noticed in the recon, 5 miles north, attempt to grab a few sticks of C-4 and a detonator, some guns n' sneak up to the 12 A-124's or MiG29's on the tarmac and set a bomb on one to blow them all. Or maybe the tower, or the ammo dump it's self. Maybe lase a target from the trees in the hills. Come home to medals for acts beyond the call of duty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This alone shows how foolish the whole idea is.

Come on that is not realistic at all and if game mechanica are changed to make it possible yoll have 12 year old FPS kiddies running around on your airbase all the time blowing up jets on the ground.

Even combining tanks sim and flight sim is a foolish idea. it would not be much fun to get plikned from angels 20 in your tank. Why do you think there is no air in Steel beasts?

The only think that could possibly be done is combine flightsim and strategy game but even that is not worth the effort imho.

Pick the game/ sim for what you want to do.

if it floats your boat you can always waste countells hours in OFP every tíme you get shot down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ive played WW2online..

And no! being attaked from there air isnt fun..

but its war.. and war on computer is fun..

the world has to littel sims that combines the whole thing called warfare!

my 2kr


Peace Means Practis
#1767918 - 04/06/06 08:40 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Rat Boy Offline
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Okay, now I'm leaning towards the Navy sim, if only because they haven't gotten a lot of love lately from flight sim makers. A study sim based on the F/A-18 (C, D, E, and F; all countries that use it, too) would make for a fairly in-depth and dynamic study sim.

#1767919 - 04/07/06 12:16 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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hansundfranz Offline
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Quote:
In real life, there are 24 year olds running around tryin to blow up your aircraft on the tarmac too - that's war. What's your problem if they are 12, 24 or 44, your job is to make sure they don't - period - that's war...
Yeah it happens again and again, The famous infantry attacks on air forces bases by teh vietcong or the republican guard come to my mind.
When was the last time a pilot planted bombs as special forces soldier? Huh, well never!

We all also know that infiltration in fast jets is the preferd mode nowadys, Do a bomb run then point your je onto a hangar and ejcet, Continue on foot to blow up whats left.

Quote:
Tell ya what, if someone comes up with it, I'll be there. And you say you won't?
The whole idea is so far of the mark that it is not worth speculating about it.

But yeah I agree it would be cool If I became allmighty just as it would be cool to be a super hero do it all in a massive wargame (with everybody else revolving around you so YOU can live your fantasy.

#1767920 - 04/07/06 12:43 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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@ Hardcore:

The idea sounds great, but as it is, I think it's just too much for current computers and the "average user." You'd have to consider the average joe when thinking of massive online games coz not everyone has the "super rig" serious flight simmers have. Judging by the capability of that "fantasy game," not only do you have to have flight models for aircraft and physics/ground models for vehicles, you'd also have to find a way to render trees, bases, tarmac, roads, and damn near everything else so that it looks good or even decent for everyone - from your footsoldier sneaking behind a tree to your pilot doing Mach at 200 AGL on a bombing run egress with FLAK all around him.

Not only do I think this project will need supercomputers and supervideocards to run, it'll take hell of a lot of space on the hard drive... while that might not be an issue for some, others do use their PCs for work, hobbies, and other things besides "the best game ever."

Sure, it'd be nice to see this come true, but I'd consider myself lucky if this comes in the next 5 years - seeing as it takes 2 years or so to create a "sequel", I'm thinking 5 years to create a "new game", I'm thinking at least 7 years to create this "best game ever" and to test it thoroughly so as to keep everyone happy.

For now, I'd settle for a good flight sim that offers great flight model, avionics, etc. plus a dynamic campaign with good AI. Wait... I think I just described Falcon. Okay... Hmmm... add a few more aircraft... perhaps the F-14 or F-18 and carrier ops to add another "theatre" to the sim. I'd be happy to wait a year or two for this to materialize, while I'm hoping somebody gets inspired and gets enough cash to bring "the best game ever" into reality.


- Ice
#1767921 - 04/07/06 01:23 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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CrashDome Offline
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Beer City, WI
Quote:
Originally posted by Rat Boy:
Okay, now I'm leaning towards the Navy sim, if only because they haven't gotten a lot of love lately from flight sim makers. A study sim based on the F/A-18 (C, D, E, and F; all countries that use it, too) would make for a fairly in-depth and dynamic study sim.
I can't walk into a place that sells PC games without tripping over an F-18 sim... granted they are a bit old, but US Navy Fighters, Janes F/A-18, and F/A-18 OIF arent enough? In truth, I would very much like to have seen LOMAC include the F-16 and F-18 right out of the package. If they had balanced the two sides w/ flyable a/c I would have been less inclined to let it gather dust. Not saying that's WHY I let it gather dust.... but I suppose I shouldn't bring up the "L" word. In fact,... everyone just forget I even mentioned it.....

@Hardcore
Don't listen to everyone else. With what I've seen happen w/ Falcon series and OFP series back in 1997-2001 I would not be surprised if it isn't possible by year 2010 to 2015.
MMOPG... MMOQRP.. MMO.. whatever the hell they are were dreams only what..5 years ago? With the rate they caught on I can start seeing multiprocessor servers offloading processing and sharing data to make it easy as cake for game servers. Client-side might be a bit more difficult, but I've already seen applications use multiple client apps to do different tasks and switch between them without the user barely noticing. I could see a flight sim, a tank/vehicle sim, and fps merged into a multiple client app system fairly soon. However, a real good system would be *urk* a console specifically designed with around an OS that was made only to do those specific things.


Usually found simming in:
Falcon 4 BMS
iRacing
Arma 2 CO
#1767922 - 04/07/06 01:59 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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- Ice Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrashDome:
However, a real good system would be *urk* a console specifically designed with around an OS that was made only to do those specific things.
"urk" is right... IMHO, simulations on a console just doesn't seem right.

However, getting everybody to upgrade their rigs to play a game doesn't seem to be a good way to sell a game.


- Ice
#1767923 - 04/07/06 07:11 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Rat Boy Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrashDome:
I can't walk into a place that sells PC games without tripping over an F-18 sim... granted they are a bit old, but US Navy Fighters, Janes F/A-18, and F/A-18 OIF arent enough?
I did say "lately;" sims like LOMAC, F4AF, and the Strike Fighters series tend to focus primarily on USAF. I believe I mentioned a while back that an aircraft like the F/A-18 matched gameplaywise what the F-16 offered for a flightsim, namely one that offers multiple and distinctive aircraft (in this case, the F/A-18C, E, F, and perhaps G) that fly for multiple countries (Canada, Australia, Spain, Kuwait, Switzerland, Finland, and Malaysia).

#1767924 - 04/09/06 06:02 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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CrashDome Offline
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Beer City, WI
I'll give you that.... however, I'd REALLY like to see something fresh like an F-22, F-117... etc... (I know, I know,... there's no unclassified info... a guy can dream right?)

A truly revolutionary combat sim would be an engine with capabilities to allow community to add additional a/c like all the commercial aircraft sims out there.


Usually found simming in:
Falcon 4 BMS
iRacing
Arma 2 CO
#1767925 - 04/09/06 10:23 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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SUBS17 Offline
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New Zealand
Quote:
Originally posted by ecienavxela:
Quote:
Originally posted by CrashDome:
However, a real good system would be *urk* a console specifically designed with around an OS that was made only to do those specific things.
"urk" is right... IMHO, simulations on a console just doesn't seem right.

However, getting everybody to upgrade their rigs to play a game doesn't seem to be a good way to sell a game.
Well if you choose to be a jet combat flight simmer you have to be prepared to upgrade. Its just the way it is with jet combat flight sims. They have always been like that as they are the most complex programmes to make.

#1767926 - 04/09/06 10:26 AM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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SUBS17 Offline
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New Zealand
Quote:
Originally posted by hansundfranz:
Hardcore, how much time do you expect to run around FPS like, ho much time would you spent in a jet, how much time in a chopper, how much time in a tank, how much time manning SAMs how much time in choppers how much time in other vehicles?

Quote:
So you're dangling in your shoot, watching the enemy amass a small search team to roll out to your location, hunt you down n shoot you dead. But, with the help of the others in the air or W.H.Y., they're slowed down a bit to allow you a chance to land and get to a safe zone. You make it. Now, either call in and wait out an extraction, or see if you can make it to that ammo dump you'd noticed in the recon, 5 miles north, attempt to grab a few sticks of C-4 and a detonator, some guns n' sneak up to the 12 A-124's or MiG29's on the tarmac and set a bomb on one to blow them all. Or maybe the tower, or the ammo dump it's self. Maybe lase a target from the trees in the hills. Come home to medals for acts beyond the call of duty.
This alone shows how foolish the whole idea is.

Come on that is not realistic at all and if game mechanica are changed to make it possible yoll have 12 year old FPS kiddies running around on your airbase all the time blowing up jets on the ground.

Even combining tanks sim and flight sim is a foolish idea. it would not be much fun to get plikned from angels 20 in your tank. Why do you think there is no air in Steel beasts?

The only think that could possibly be done is combine flightsim and strategy game but even that is not worth the effort imho.

Pick the game/ sim for what you want to do.

if it floats your boat you can always waste countells hours in OFP every tíme you get shot down.
It all depends on who you fly with, if ya let the enemy get close enough to frag your aircraft then you deserve to lose.

#1767927 - 04/09/06 01:08 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Novum Offline
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Novum  Offline
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SWEDEN
one other thing.. doesnt Airfields have there own securety??


Peace Means Practis
#1767928 - 04/09/06 01:11 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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- Ice Offline
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- Ice  Offline
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Philippines / North East UK
Quote:
Originally posted by SUBS17:
Well if you choose to be a jet combat flight simmer you have to be prepared to upgrade. Its just the way it is with jet combat flight sims. They have always been like that as they are the most complex programmes to make.
Yes, if you are a jet combat flight sim (but this applies to MSFS too) enthusiast, your PC is "above average" compared to your regular Joe, but this should not mean that every new iteration of a sim or a new release would FORCE you to upgrade. Look at AF - the graphics aren't spectacular, but the game is still good - meaning: not everything is in the graphics department.


- Ice
#1767929 - 04/09/06 01:38 PM Re: @C3PO any plans for a new simulation?  
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Porkchop Offline
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Parma, OH, USA
A few thoughts on these multi vehicle/aircraft sim/ shooter hybrids. The compromises that need to be made for gameplay/play balance issues turn those games into....OPFLASH, or the Battlefield series games. OPFLASH being the more "hardcore" of the two.

Both titles are evolving nicely. I forget the new title for OPFLASH but that should fit the bill for those wanting to play a multi-vehicular/aircraft/FPS type of game.

I love both BF 1942, Vietnam, and BF-2. I also have OPFLASH by the way, fun games,but for my simming experience Falcon, and LOMAC work well for me.

I think if you try to put too much into a sim by way of FPS elements, ground vehicle elements etc, you end up with something that is neither fish, nor fowel. In other words you run the risk of turning your sim into something other than a sim. Does that make sense? You end up with an FPS that has helos.

For LP to go that route they risk loseing a fan base that demands high fidelity simulations.

To put it succinctly: "You dance with with the one that brung ya". In other words you stick with what is successful. The sales figures for AF show that an in depth simulation has a loyal fan base. The market dictates what you should produce. Why fool with success?


I love it when a plan comes together. ~ H. Smith "The A-Team".
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