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#1730048 - 10/01/06 10:31 PM A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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It's probably nitpicky, but other than the odd things that affect the rockets and such, I've noticed a couple of things they could've fixed in the last LB2 patch.

The mission briefs have ridiculous ambient temperatures. I flew one in the NTC a while ago that was forecasting 134 degrees Fahrenheit for a middle-of-the-night mission. I haven't researched the climatology of Azerbaijan, but the mission briefs often cite triple digit (Fahrenheit) temps for day or night missions.

The other thing is the PNVS. One of the mission I flew had a clear, starry night, but turn on the NVGs and the stars go away. This is way off base. I've got a 1st Generation NV monocular and use it from time to time to view faint stars in constellations. NVG amplifies all light and the stars should at least still be visible.

Like I said, these are nitpicky things and no doubt there are more bigger issues we'd like to have seen addressed, but one would think they wouldn't have been too hard to fix.

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#1730049 - 10/02/06 03:01 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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I for one would rather that they hadn't BROKEN the Laser Hellfire Ripple fire that worked in LB1!!

In LB1, you could launch Laser HF with a few second's separation in LOAL mode and strike multiple targets as the Laser shifted focus. In LB2, once the initial target is destroyed, any subsequent Laser HF in flight just go stupid.


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#1730050 - 10/03/06 02:50 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Um, I think it they actually fixed it. Since there are laser codes involved, you can't ripple fire like you can with RF missiles per se. You actually need a LDO(remote or ground Laser designator) in order ripple launch LGM at multiple targets. Or else, you can do it with your aircraft but you must fire at the first target(TADS Mode w/laser off) wait a few seconds, fire at the next and the next. Each missile gets its own timer. Eight seconds is about the sweet spot. You just have to make sure that you switch back to the first target and lase it before its timer goes to zero. The same applies to the other targets you launched at. I find firing at more than 3 is unmanageable and I dont make to the first target before its timer runs out. Then the missile goes balistic. In RL there is a 8 second wait between launches(see rapid fire below). This is simulated in the sim with the missle counter in LOAL mode.[pg 5.23 in manual:"(In LOAL mode, you can fire Hellfires with the laser off, but you’ll have to activate it and lase the target before the missile’s countdown timer reaches zero.)"]. This sim is amazing....

RL(Real Life) method:
"Laser Designation for Rotary-Wing Aircraft With HELLFIRE LGMs. The lock-on and launch ranges of LGMs can be several miles. LGMs provide extended standoff target engagement for high-threat targets. The pilot has several options for firing mode, firing method, and missile seeker lock-on.
(1) Firing Modes
(a) Single Fire. In the single-fire mode, one missile is launched. This mode can be used with autonomous direct, remote direct, and remote indirect fire methods, as discussed in sub-paragraph (2) below.
(b) Rapid Fire. Rapid fire is a technique of launching two or more missiles on the same code. Multiple targets can be engaged by launching missiles approximately 8 seconds or more apart, as specified by the LDO. Once the first missile
hits the target, the LDO must smoothly move the laser spot to the next target.
(c) Ripple Fire. In the ripple-fire mode, missiles are fired one after the other as fast as possible. Multiple laser designators can be used (indirect fire requires two remote laser designators). Each laser designator operates on
a different laser code, and the weapon's seekers are coded to match each designator.
(d) Rapid or Ripple Fire. Using multiple codes and laser designators, the combination of rapid or ripple fire can be achieved.
(2) Firing Methods
(a) Direct Fire Method. Direct fire is achieved using either autonomous or remote laser III-20 designators. When using remote designators, the rotary-wing aircraft is free to resume terrain masking or engage other targets after each LGM launch. This capability is called"fire and forget" and increases aircraft survivability and flexibility.
(b) Indirect Fire Method. Indirect fire is achieved by using remote laser designators. Vulnerability of rotary-wing aircraft to enemy direct-fire weapons and radar detection is minimized by employing LGMs in the indirect-fire method. The LGM is launched while the aircraft is positioned behind masking terrain features, like trees and hills. It is launched with a preprogrammed autopilot sequence causing the LGM to fly an elevated trajectory (either high or low) over the masking terrain feature. The seeker will then locate and lock-on to the
remote laser-designated target."

#1730051 - 10/03/06 12:42 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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I'll haave to try this again . Never could get it to work, but I was probably firing with the Laser ON from the beginning.

I seem to recall an older discussion differentiating RIPPLE and RAPID fire as described above.


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#1730052 - 10/03/06 08:21 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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The AH-1W "Super Cobra" is the USMC's attack helicopter and can carry Hellfires, TOW IIs and AIM-9 Sidewinders. The "LST" (Laser Spot Tracker) button on the THCDP (TOW/Hellfire Control Display Panel) was not operative at the time I took the training, therefore the "Whisky Cobra" could not laser designate its targets autonomously. This is in keeping with the Marines' doctrine of CAS wherein a forward observer lases the targets. This allowed LOAL as well as LOBL operation even though there are no mast-mounted sensors for acquiring targets when masked. This was around 15 years ago and I have no idea what changes may have been implemented.

It's interesting how different approaches are taken in response to doctrine. The Whiskey was decidedly lower tech compared to the Apache, but considering its doctrinal purpose and certain other advantages, is still one bad muthuh.

#1730053 - 10/04/06 02:45 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Recluse, actually I tried it before I posted. It works in the sim. \:\) In fact, since you can hand off targets in the sim I'll bet we can have loads of fun with this in multiplayer. For instance, one player can be masked along with his wing while another flys decoy to draw attention away from the area. The masking chopper selects a target and fires LGM LOAL(while masking) then hands the target(code goes with it automatically) to his wing. The wing once he has the code should have the count-down timer. He can unmask from another location, lase the target before it hits. This would be advanced combat stuff though.

#1730054 - 10/04/06 02:29 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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I tried it and couldn't get it to work, but the timing is pretty tricky...and I didn't have much time to mess with it.

I don't think you can handoff a HF in the air to a wingman (along with the countdown) but then I never tried it. OF course, I take Radar Hellfires and a LB-R whenever possible which makes LOAL shots without LOS and PFZ handoffs a breeze..


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#1730055 - 10/08/06 11:38 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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One thing that drives me mad is when you are flying escort (like special ops missions) you cannot tell the others to hold position (while you go ahead and clean the area).
\:\(

#1730056 - 10/08/06 02:26 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Yep..I think Escort type missions are best flown Multiplayer with a human in the UH-60. Of course, sometimes there is a completely AI CH-53 or CH-46 to escort in which case you are screwed!

One thing you CAN do, if it is a FARP member UH-60 is edit the WPs in the Mission Planner so at least there is some loiter time at various points so you can stay ahead and sweep for threats.

Of course, you may end up putting a loiter point in the middle of a nest of AAA that weren't apparent on the map.

Recluse


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#1730057 - 10/08/06 06:44 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Hi Recluse:

Also, don't forget that they don't care what's in their path. They fly right thru it. They have crashed against me a few times...
\:\(

#1730058 - 10/09/06 04:51 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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KIOWA target data sharing with the LB2s
in the role of FAC is a big disappointment for me

Thats really the main reason for the KIOWA
I cannot believe they didnt just try it online
before they shipped the code.

With voice comms, we can still do it, but its
not the same as it could have been. All the
PFZ code is there between LB2 and Apaches.

Other nice to haves would have been:
1. Persistant online campaign or serial mission engine
2. more than 8 player total for MP session.
Pilot/CP pairs could have been 16 player.
3. more Red vs Blue depth in single and campaign missions


AV8R
#1730059 - 10/09/06 12:47 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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I don't think the KIOWA can do this in real life as it doesn't have a MMW radar. They probably do it by radio comms and Smoke. I think the ability of the NR Longbow to send PFZ's with the Radar INOP is really a 'BUG' albeit a useful one....NOT

Recluse

EDIT: OK I was too lazy to look it up.. I stand corrected!

Where is the #$%^ strikeout tag in UBB code!!!!????


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#1730060 - 10/09/06 06:00 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Recluse:
I don't think the KIOWA can do this in real life as it doesn't have a MMW radar. They probably do it by radio comms and Smoke. I think the ability of the NR Longbow to send PFZ's with the Radar INOP is really a 'BUG' albeit a useful one.

Recluse
The lack of MMW radar doesn't prevent it from datalinking digitized info. Check it out:

OH-58 Kiowa

#1730061 - 10/10/06 12:46 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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I just posted this in the COMMS PAGE thread and thought I would crosspost:

An often overlooked function is the Download ABCCC targets (check manual for key command.. it involves the ~ key) which will populate your TSD with any units spotted by others.

To use the KIOWA in a Scout role, all the other players need to do is update their ABCCC targets when the KIOWA spots something, along with an approximate bearing and/or grid position to differentiate among other targets. Perhaps this is a reasonable approximation of the digital datalink, while, in the SIM, the PFZ function is limited to Longbows.

Recluse


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#1730062 - 10/12/06 01:38 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Well said Recluse. What should be different
about the KIOWA from the LB2 and Apaches, is that
the KIOWA should be able to manage target info to all flights. Not just between its own flight.

I use these alot for SA:
CNTL-~ = DOWNLOAD TARGETS
(ABCCC - Airborne Battlefield Command Control Center data send to your TSD target list)

CNTL-BckSpc = TARGET HANDOFF
(your current targets uploaded and sent to all friendlies)

ALT-N = Mission Map
Only use it when I have the luxury to do so in
the LB2 without crashing or getting shot down.

The KIOWA has one of these in its cockpit MFD.


AV8R
#1730063 - 10/12/06 02:50 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Ok, so I take it that you guys tested and confirmed the Kiowa's inability to pass PFZs in multiplayer. A few questions though: Is this limited only to transfer of data from Kiowa to other flights? Has the host tried flying lead as Kiowa and transferring PFZs to members of the same flight(Apaches)? Does the attack my target command or handoff target work if a Kiowa pilot attempts to do this in multiplayer(e.g., while lasing a target)?

#1730064 - 10/12/06 05:20 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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KIOWA cannot pass PFZs to its own flight or others in multiplay, period.

Passing of target info in single play may be a
different matter. (I dont play single player).

Its role as FAC and leader of the pack is
handicapped, but as Recluse has stated,
voice comms can be used.

I still want to see if the smoke rockets work
in multiplayer. Will try that next time.


AV8R
#1730065 - 10/12/06 07:09 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Point is, the Kiowa was never the "leader of the pack" (even though KW pilots will say otherwise); the Kiowa simply functions as an extension of the attack team. Due to UAVs, and enhanced integration of UAVs with Apache and Black Hawk, the role that the Kiowa fills has diminished greatly.

When you compare Kiowa with an asset such as Black Hawk or Apache, it really falls below the mark big-time - especially in LB2. There's really no advantage to waste limited flight resources on a Kiowa when Apache is available. It carries much less, it's slower, and it's far less survivable.

#1730066 - 10/12/06 10:26 PM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Franze:
There's really no advantage to waste limited flight resources on a Kiowa when Apache is available. It carries much less, it's slower, and it's far less survivable.
Slower? I remember it being much faster than the Longbow. In fact, I specifically recall an instance where the Ah-64D impressed its comparative slowness upon me. After inadvertantly stumbling into a Zu-23 nest (which destroyed my wingman in a blink), two Cobras appeared over a hillside from about 2 clicks out. With no stingers and no wingman, I dumped ordanance and ran, but they nonetheless managed to run me down. I am more often spooked in the Kiowa, due to the lack of fancy 360 degree radars and such, but I *always* get away when I turn and bolt. I can't confirm this - once again because I do not have any sims/sim materials with me - but I'd swear that the manual describes the Kiowa as faster and more maneuverable.

#1730067 - 10/13/06 03:30 AM Re: A couple of things they should have fixed in LB2  
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According to this, it would seem that I am in fact wrong:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/oh-58.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ah-64.htm

But if these stats are right, then the authors really upped the Kiowa's max speed.

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