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#1533302 - 01/17/05 01:10 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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IvanK Offline
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Err .... dont think I have ever noticed eye roll RL including in a fight with rapid G excursions. If its there the brain resolved this very quickly
and decided it was not appropriate viewing material ..... \:\)

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#1533303 - 01/17/05 02:56 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Deacon211 Offline
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I unfortunately can't get the link to work but I have noticed in the past that when I am banked at all, I always seem to try to roll my head upright.

I noticed it one day when I was flying a low level with a student in the front seat. I thought it was strange as I would have expected his head to remain opposite the G vector which remained at the bottom of the aircraft. But each time we turned, he cocked his head to keep his eyes level. Then I realized, I did it too.

Can't wait for this sim to come out!

Deacon

#1533304 - 01/17/05 06:55 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Stiglr Offline
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I notice in the second animation that, while the object is more realily viewed "out in front" of the cockpit, you also see areas of the nose of the aircraft that you're not really going to get from inside the pit.

This is one of those big boondoggles people tend to ask for in sims: to have perfect vision around canopy obstructions, when the solution is simply to just maneuver such that the obstruction isn't there (as simple as a bank of a degree or two, or a little rudder kick), or perhaps wait 1 or 2 seconds until the object moves to a different location. If your Situational Awareness is up to par, you will still be able to accurately predict where that bogie will be in only a few seconds from now. Given the nature of air combat and perpetual motion, the problem solves itself.

#1533305 - 01/17/05 07:39 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Joe Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nguyen:
I notice in the second animation that, while the object is more realily viewed "out in front" of the cockpit, you also see areas of the nose of the aircraft that you're not really going to get from inside the pit.
Perhaps. This is a simple animation - who's to say the aircraft radome has been modeled to scale?

#1533306 - 01/18/05 07:35 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Stiglr Offline
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Well, I think I am making a correct assumption that if the canopy railings are modeled to scale, so is the nose. call me crazy, but I think that was the modeler's intent.

Anyway, I've seen several sims toy with these "head jog" commands, and view customization schemes, only to end up with head-through-the-canopy-glass type viewpoints that are far more unrealistic than just accepting the fact that a cramped cockpit is going to block your view at some point.

People need to get used to the fact that you are likely NOT going to have perfect visual acquisition all the time during any fight. It's one of the challenges of air combat, and it's why you develop SA skills to help you cope with it.

#1533307 - 01/19/05 09:26 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Baco Offline
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And to ad to Nguyens point. If you ever havce the experience of sitting inside a 70s - 80s fighter planes cockpit youll se how smal they really are. I had teh chance of sitting in a Dagger and a Mirag IIIEA, and man, teh visibility towards the front is really low. The space between the instruments and the glas is very little. I belive that both the Skyhawks and the Harriers have much better visibility, but I dont belive that is not also quite restricted compared to todays fighters or what we think an apropiate visibility should be.

And even so, the FRS.1 dont look like they have a woderful visibility.

Then aggain the Pucara has the most open visibility I know of, in a combat plane. Man it almost feels like you are sitting on the nose outside the canopy ;\) .

My point is that we dont need a viewing system that would alod us to move our head. Besides. The pilot can move its head freelly whil no Gs are being pulled. In the middle of combat, the head of the pilot surlly goes along with the aircrafts movements. Just whatch the viedos form any aircraft doing acrobatics and see the pilots head...


Fighter pilots make movies, Attack Pilots make history.
#1533308 - 01/20/05 03:49 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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mbeaver Offline
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On the other hand, our view on the computer monitor would be like the RL pilot flying with one eye covered. Human stereo vision allows us to see past things like the cockpit framework. What's blocked from one eye might still be visible to the other. I'd like to see sim makers take this into account.

#1533309 - 01/20/05 04:04 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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scary_pigeon Offline
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i think to compensate for lack of stereo vision, the art people may have narrowed the struts.

i suppose this isnt quite right for those using 3d goggles.

(i want a pair - im really wanting to see what it would be like to see the 3d world beyond the cockpit)

#1533310 - 01/20/05 07:02 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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GoGamer.com - Jason Offline
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Steve and Thunder-works crew,

I sent a new email. It's working now.

Thanks,
Jason

#1533311 - 01/20/05 09:02 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Baco Offline
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MBeaver, you got a point there.


Fighter pilots make movies, Attack Pilots make history.
#1533312 - 01/21/05 04:49 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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mbeaver Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by scary_pigeon:
i think to compensate for lack of stereo vision, the art people may have narrowed the struts.

I have no problem with that. It worked fine for sims like Longbow 2 and EAW.
Another method would be to make the struts translucent. Better yet, have them solid in the center and become gradually more translucent towards the edges.

#1533313 - 01/21/05 05:45 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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scary_pigeon Offline
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translucent struts? i think that would look a bit strange.

#1533314 - 01/21/05 07:28 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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mbeaver Offline
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I'm not sure but I think EECH has that option. Red Baron 3D and Gunship! have the option of making the whole cockpit translucent.

#1533315 - 01/21/05 09:27 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Joe Offline
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So long as it's an option... I would prefer to keep them opaque.

#1533316 - 01/22/05 03:31 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Stiglr Offline
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Translucence is an excellent solution. It doesn't take much opacity to create a great effect where the bar always looks like it's there, and solid, but you get uninterrtuped views of "obscured" icons, bogies, symbology, whatever when close by frames.

#1533317 - 01/22/05 04:21 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  

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WWIIOnline moves your head and doesn't just rotate your eyeballs on an axis in the middle.

#1533318 - 01/25/05 07:37 PM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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Bard Offline
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battle of britain, jet thunder.. great stuff!


What WW2 Fighter pilots say about Angels and Airspeed:

"Nice job of getting down to the basics - love your choice of a cover!" Col. Clarence 'Bud' Anderson

"I have enjoyed reading angels and airspeed, it should prove good reading for all interested in combat tactics and their application related to the fluid air environment and state of technology in WWII years. All the best as you make it available." - Col. Charles McGee - Tuskegee Airman

NEVER ENGAGE STUPID.
#1533319 - 02/02/05 01:12 AM Re: Looking around cockpitframes.  
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scary_pigeon Offline
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britain
I have received my vector expansion unit and it is fun.

I was playing it in the wwii online. Even without the reading of X,Y,Z the device is good because it suppresses that issue of shifting in your seat slightly and the whole view panning unexpectedly.

I think a good option would be to mix mouse view with head panning.

I really like the idea of the X,Y,Z shifting, that can effectively make the monitor as if you're looking through a window (to kill stereo depth perception close one eye \:\) ) with a world beyond i imagine.

well, I plan to start figuring out how to interface this into the game soon. I think I will have a few modes of operation.

mouse pan only.
vector expansion x,y,z,paning
vector expansion x,y,z, mouse panning <- this will actually be my favoured mode.

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