Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#1533157 - 12/09/04 11:33 AM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,955
Skii Offline
Member
Skii  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,955
Slough, Berkshire UK
Dante - I'm reading Sharkey Wards book at the moment, and he mentions the water injection system on the SHAR that cooled the turbine blades on the Pegasus engine and provided a limited time performance boost in the warmer air temperatures - is this feature going to be added just out of interest ?

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#1533158 - 12/09/04 01:37 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
Indeed, Sir! Water-injection and Pegasus engine temperature monitoring will be important for carrier/VTOL operations. Water supply will be limited and will have a flow according to specs in the first generation Harrier flight manual that I've ordered. Temperature makes an impact in V/STOL operations, in the freezing climate of the Falklands, the Harrier was at advantage, while in Middle East Iraq operations, it was at disavantage.


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#1533159 - 12/09/04 01:48 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,955
Skii Offline
Member
Skii  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,955
Slough, Berkshire UK
Superb Dante - good to hear !

Its also interesting to read how highly Sharkey rated the Harriers low-speed manouverability, with those stubby little wings its quite suprising !

#1533160 - 12/09/04 06:12 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
Quote:

Its also interesting to read how highly Sharkey rated the Harriers low-speed manouverability, with those stubby little wings its quite suprising !
It should be bad in turns (the first generation Harriers, but the second generation AV-8Bs and Gr.7 have big wings trading a bit of its speed for turn capacity and better range/cargo).

Sharkey commented little about this, but is fully noticeable in the docs I've got, is that by just moving the nozzles slightly, not to change drastically the flight path, is enough to trigger the Reaction Control System (RCS), these outlets blow air strongly (direct from Pegasus engine) and with the pitch outlets, it achieves excellent pitch authority in all speeds, this is more close to what Sharkey commented - despite they denying, who can say for sure that they really didn't used a little bit of RCS assistence to bank and pitch together in the gun fights with the slow but agile prop Pucaras as he described in the book ;\)


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#1533161 - 12/09/04 09:38 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
IvanK Offline
Member
IvanK  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
Aus
Well the Sea Harrier FRS1 and Gr3 are NOT turners.6G Corner velocity Mid flap is around 450Kts IAS, even the Mirage can do better than this with a 6.7G Cv of 375Kts IAS.

As to Sustained turn performance at 1000ft your average Gr3/FRs1 can sustain about 3.6G mid flap.
The Mirage III can sustain 5G up to 9000 feet
and 3G up to 27,000feet .... of these things I know \:\) .... as does Dante

#1533162 - 12/09/04 11:45 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Dante-JT Offline
Member
Dante-JT  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 320
Florianpolis - Brazil
Quote:

Well the Sea Harrier FRS1 and Gr3 are NOT turners. 6G Corner velocity Mid flap is around 450Kts IAS, even the Mirage can do better than this with a 6.7G Cv of 375Kts IAS.
IvanK ;\) Yep I know, by the docs, that first generation Harriers are bad turners, so, do you think am I exaggerating when I say that, to make things more balanced in a dogfight, Harrier pilots used RCS/improved control authority more than they say so? Of course I know this doesn't fix the sustained turn performance in the end. I would like to see Sharkey Ward himself posting here his views - or better - to have you and Ward for a virtual Mirage vs Sea Harrier dogfight in JT one day


-----
Jet Thunder Project
http://www.thunder-works.com
#1533163 - 12/10/04 12:21 AM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
IvanK Offline
Member
IvanK  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
Aus
I pick up the virtual guantlet \:\)

#1533164 - 12/12/04 08:23 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 36
SubyRS Offline
Junior Member
SubyRS  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 36
Long Beach, CA, USA
Regarding the terrain shots on the first page. Is that representive of the games' world graphics? Don't mean to complain, but is there a reason why the terrain can't look more like that in Jetfighter V? Have you seen JF5's terrain and sky/cloud graphics? It just makes the game much more realistic if you can look out the window and be convinced you are really in the air and not over some virtual video game sterilized world.


AMD Athalon 64 X2 6000+
Asus M2N32 SLI Deluxe, Wireless Edition
Win XP Home SP2b
EVGA 8800GTS 320mb K.O.
2048mb Corsair XMS2 DDR800
Asus PG221 Gaming Monitor
#1533165 - 12/12/04 09:18 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,772
semmern Offline
Veteran
semmern  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,772
Oslo, Norway
Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRS:
Regarding the terrain shots on the first page. Is that representive of the games' world graphics? Don't mean to complain, but is there a reason why the terrain can't look more like that in Jetfighter V? Have you seen JF5's terrain and sky/cloud graphics? It just makes the game much more realistic if you can look out the window and be convinced you are really in the air and not over some virtual video game sterilized world.
The terrain on the Falklands islands is rather bland. So much so that the aviation artist Robert Taylor found it difficult to make an interesting painting out of a dogfight between Sharkey Ward and an Argentinian Mirage (Or was it a Dagger?), and in addition to that, from what I gather the terrain in the screenshots is a beta/placeholder.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#1533166 - 12/12/04 10:34 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 262
Hot Meat Pie Offline
Member
Hot Meat Pie  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 262
Australia
So would a Mirage III have enough internal fuel to make it back to an airbase in Argentina if he popped of his drop tanks over the Falklands?

HMP

#1533167 - 12/13/04 11:30 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
IvanK Offline
Member
IvanK  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
Aus
Yes. Rough Rule of thumb for Mirage III at altitude 1nm per gallon of fuel. Clean Mirage with guns and wet leading edges 655 galls
without guns an extra 72galls in gun bay tank so a total of 727 gall is possible. Though I figure 655 value is the one to use.

Nearest Argentine Base from Stanley is Rio grande 381nm, next closest Rio Gallegos 428nm.

Even from Lo level a quick "combat " flight planning pluck gives a fuel Burn from lo level, climb to optimum and descent of 498galls nil wind.

So at lo level there is not a lot combat fuel available a Bingo Fuel is going to be around 600galls, gives 100gall for the circuit at home.
Mirage III uses about 50gall per circuit)

So once the tanks are gone its RTB pretty much straight after.

At High level its a non issue.

Max range profile 2 x 374 gall external tanks (1700L) with 200galls reserve fuel is 1230nm tanks retained)

Post Note: The Dagger has another100galls or so on top of this I believe... clever Isrealis snuck a bit of extra gas into the area behind the cockpit, which in the Mirage III is choka with radar related avionics boxes.

#1533168 - 12/14/04 09:12 AM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 262
Hot Meat Pie Offline
Member
Hot Meat Pie  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 262
Australia
SO I guess the Brits were lucky the Argies had no GCI! ( and lucky the bombs didn't go off in a few of the ships that were hit )

HMP

#1533169 - 12/14/04 10:25 AM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,458
Goanna Offline
Member
Goanna  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,458
Australia
There was rumor that an Exorcet actually hit one of the RN carriers, but failed to explode...that really would have made things "interesting"...

#1533170 - 12/14/04 11:14 AM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 382
Fenna Offline
Member
Fenna  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 382
Lancaster, England
Well, there's also an Argy squadron who claimed to have bombed the Invincible, there's a painting of it too. I'm not so sure myself ;\)

#1533171 - 12/14/04 11:30 AM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,955
Skii Offline
Member
Skii  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,955
Slough, Berkshire UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Fenna:
Well, there's also an Argy squadron who claimed to have bombed the Invincible, there's a painting of it too. I'm not so sure myself ;\)
Another tidbit from Sharkeys book, the Argentine news reported sinking the Invincible quite early on in the conflict, as a result when the crew of the spy trawler Narwhal were captured by the SBS and came aboard the Invincible, the STILL refused to believe the ship had not been sunk, and nothing could persuade them otherwise.

#1533172 - 12/14/04 03:28 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 301
Marcantilan Offline
Member
Marcantilan  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 301
Buenos Aires, Argentina
No Argentinian CGI in Malvinas? Well, the Westinghouse TFS 43 Radar of n2 VYCA Group served extremely well all the war, even in that hostile (weather and electronic) enviroment.

The radar survived a Shrike missile attack, bombing runs, extreme winds, etc, and was able to direct CAPs to Harrier, warning air defenses, even help to fire land based exocets! (a world first)

You could check a good story of the group here: http://www.hangardigital.com.ar/ojo_electronico.html (in spanish, of course)

And about the Invincible, the argie part of the story tells the attack to the carrier was made by a couple of SUEs and 4 Skyhawks, and the ship was touched by the missile and 500 lb bombs.

You could check the story in any argentinian web page about the war.

But, as facts, note the invincible was the last ship to return and after an engine change in mid seas, suspicious, dont you think ;\)

Hey, no flame war here.

Looking forward to buy this sim!!!!!!!!!!


Ultima Ratio Regis
#1533173 - 12/14/04 10:44 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,458
Goanna Offline
Member
Goanna  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,458
Australia
Sharky Ward mentions in the closing pages of his book that the Argies could have won if they (in his opinion)did one thing....prosecute the Sea Harrier at all costs. For a task force without air cover would have been a sitting duck.

I am looking forward to putting Sharky's theories to the test.

#1533174 - 12/15/04 11:16 AM Re: Some updates...  

**DONOTDELETE**
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered


Its looking very good. I was wondering if Tir/Vector will be supported in JT?

#1533175 - 12/15/04 10:11 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
IvanK Offline
Member
IvanK  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
Aus
Hotmeatpie, the argies did have GCI, 2 radars were installed at Stanley between the airfield and the town a TPS43 and TPS44 I believe. A further GCI radar was located on the north of East Falkand as well.

The TPS44 remained in service until Stanley fell. The radars were not ideally sited so could provide little low level coverage over the islands themselves, however meduim levelto high
level coverage was good . GCI alerting was used by the Argintines throught the conflict.

"Falklands the Air" war by the British Aviation Reasearch group covers the location and employment of these radars in great detail \:\)

IMO If the Argentines had extended the runway at Stanly ASAP the war would have been dramatically different. 100metres of PSP would have done wonders. The roles would have been reversed with the RN/RAF aircraft operating over large stand off distances.

#1533176 - 12/15/04 10:31 PM Re: Some updates...  
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 262
Hot Meat Pie Offline
Member
Hot Meat Pie  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 262
Australia
So what made the Harrier so effective in destroying the Mirage and A4's? Was it the AIM 9L? Pilots? Tactics? From what I understand the Argies were excellent pilots.

HMP

Page 6 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
RM Jet Suit Boarding
by Red2112. 05/08/21 02:07 PM
Idiot for the day
by rwatson. 05/07/21 10:55 AM
The cost of Epic free games
by Blade_RJ. 05/06/21 08:28 PM
That mettalic smell you feel is actually yours !
by Blade_RJ. 05/06/21 05:15 PM
Shiny American Rocket, cheaper by the dozen
by Nixer. 05/06/21 12:48 AM
House of the Dragon
by PanzerMeyer. 05/05/21 05:45 PM
Some funny Facebook observations
by PanzerMeyer. 05/05/21 11:53 AM
Chinese Rocket
by carrick58. 05/05/21 12:26 AM
Hope everyone is having a good day
by oldgrognard. 05/04/21 02:09 PM
A long strange trip it's been
by rwatson. 05/03/21 04:31 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0