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#1392575 - 08/22/04 10:58 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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You know what - there's also a fan site around! http://www.hubertovo.cz/wow/ in both english and chech. I guess this site has some connections to the developers, seems to have some "inside" material.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#1392576 - 08/22/04 11:03 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ivor H Offline
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the .dta files that a lot of the game is packed into come up on a google search as among other things being Hidden & Dangerous 2 archives.

The credits looks like Chech names and the Orchestral score is by IIRC the Bohemia symphony Orchestra - and it's really a very nice piece. As I posted earlier, WoW's production values are very high, even down to fonts & menus artwork - it just oozes quality. Like Polovski, I strongly suspect that this started out being developed as a sim but got recast in arcade mode. It would be a lot to hope for that a sim version is in hand.

What we need is some cheat codes, to make all planes available in instant action (eg by counting the campaiggn missions as "won"), turn off the silly instant upgrades etc.

I haven't found a forum for this yet but we do need to speak to the devs to see what the score is.

S! - Povlovski, did you find a way of getting the other planes short of having to work through the campaign missions?


When you soar into the air in a Sopwith scout
And you're scrapping with a Hun and your gun cuts out
Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out
'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning!
#1392577 - 08/22/04 11:05 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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FlyXwire Offline
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FlyXwire  Offline
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Here's some artwork of some of the available plane models:

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgADAwcav...485883569753391[/img]

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgAAAAga*...485883571916782[/img]

As was mentioned already, there's no reason to have an experimental Nieuport triplane (approx. 3 built) in the game, but all the other aircraft models are certainly welcomed! \:\)

#1392578 - 08/22/04 11:18 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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Ursus  Offline
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And here's a link how to decompress .dta files in Mafia including a tool. Could perhaps work in WoW too. http://www.kamalook.de/Mafia/DTA.html

#1392579 - 08/22/04 11:22 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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FlyXwire Offline
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Ursus, I think you just found the keys to the palace............besides beautiful screenshots, there's even a WoW video available on that website!!!

Check out these visuals..........

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WAAAADocn...485887759961663[/img]

As the website is being translated into English yet, not all site categories are available at the moment.

You know from what I've seen and read so far, you guys are probably right..........this game looks like it could very well have been written as a serious sim first........and perhaps there's internal code that will allow the difficulty to be ramped up later!

#1392580 - 08/22/04 11:30 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlyXwire:
Ursus, I think you just found the keys to the palace............
:)

#1392581 - 08/22/04 11:41 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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FlyXwire Offline
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LOL! \:D

Hey the "videos" allow you to view the camouflage schemes of the SSW D.III, and the Nieuport 17 along with the experimental Nieuport triplane.

Not a bad website for being the "unofficial" WoW Page.

Thanks again Ursus! \:\)

#1392582 - 08/22/04 02:08 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Posts: 329
Drawde Offline
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Drawde  Offline
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Cookham,Berkshire,UK
Regarding moddability, as I have said before - the game will be moddable providing
someone can create a file unpacker for the game's .dta files. From looking at these
in a hex-editor, all of the game's resource files (skins, sounds etc.) are in standard
formats - .WAV, .DDS etc. No idea about what format 3D models are in though.
Aircraft data for FMs etc, and mission scripts, are also stored in the .dta files.

So if someone can find out how to unpack .dta files, it will be very straightforward to create aircraft
skins, terrain mods, sound mods, etc. Regarding aircraft data, missions, etc., these files appear
to be in binary format (with text identifiers) so would require further deciphering in order to
edit them. This happened with EAW though!

More info regarding .dta files, they seem to be in a similar format to those used in "Mafia" and
"Hidden and Dangerous 2" but (unlike these two games) they are either not compressed at all, or only very lightly compressed.
The file "rw_data.dll" in the game's root directory appears to contain the functions required to access .dta files so someone more skilled at programming than me could try and use this to create an unpacker.

#1392583 - 08/22/04 02:59 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Cas141 Offline
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Cas141  Offline
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Northern hemisphere
Guys , this is unbelievable . I have just flown in a furball mostly at 55 FPS, sometimes down to 30 FPS. Using FRAPS I am at 1600 x 1200!!
And not a jaggie in sight.
That's not a typo -
I repeat my system - Not top end now- Athlon 1800; 512 Ram; Radeon 9800Pro, Omega drivers; Windows 98SE.
I have flown in a 6 plane furball, at this resolution, and all without a stutter; without a UFO, in other words Bloody near perfect!! \:D
Detail - I set up a Team Deathmatch with 4 of us Germans and 2 RAF boys. The scene was Georgette, all else was Random.
When we set to I buggered off to have a look around the area. I found a gravel pit with a factory at the bottom of it. Looking up from my coward's position, the guys are all at it. Two or so have black smoke trails, then I see a collision, bits falling down, engines a lot faster than wing remnants, of course.
This is the most realistic looking air WW1 air battle I have seen outside the Blue Max.
I am still sneaking off and these guys are a long way away, but they are not pixels, they are still planes.
I get the idea it is mostly over and one seems to come looking for me. I see he has more than one wing so i figure he is a enemy . Then I see he is a triplane, and he isn't behaving like an enemy.
As I get closer to check, the others turn up.
I then realize that I had set for the "Bots" ( AI) to respawn after 12 mins ( optional ), so these must be they.
Anyway, off we go again, this time I'm looking to fight. But, what the hell, they are all triplanes and Biplanes. A lot of you expertchaps would be able to tell which models they were,'cos the detail is excellent, but I need to see the roundels and crosses.
I see one and go for him, but he seems to be possibly limping. I shoot a few rounds and in he goes, but I don't think it could really be my claim. ( Unless i am Bruno Stachel \:\) )
Eventually, I am zapped and so I close the game.

But i don't mind, cos I'm in a hurry to tell
you about the FPS and resolution, and how this "arcade game" is giving me such great fun....
Its not just an arcade game, it is that OR a Sim, whichever you want.
Look at the website which URSUS found, and the screenshots there. For flying in WW1 dogfights, I haven't found anything to come anywhere near it, and there is such potential.
You may have gathered that I haven't been so enthusiastic about a flight sim for a long time.


Mankind's problem is not failing to know the difference between right and wrong; - It is failing to know the difference between different and wrong
#1392584 - 08/22/04 04:47 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Polovski Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ursus:
You know what - there's also a fan site around! http://www.hubertovo.cz/wow/ in both english and chech. I guess this site has some connections to the developers, seems to have some "inside" material.
Great job finding that Ursus I had a look for the devs and didn't find anything but these links are good. I made a few gamplay videos, and a video of the menu system and all model previews. Total is arond 60MB so I need somewhere to post them, but if this website has sufficient videos and screenshots maybe there's no need for me to post them.

Runs very nicely with gamecam capturing 1600x1200 with 6x AA and 8X Ansi enabled too \:\) although this is on a high end system, but others say it runs great on their systems too.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1392585 - 08/22/04 05:24 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Polovski Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ivor H:

S! - Povlovski, did you find a way of getting the other planes short of having to work through the campaign missions?
No not yet, I'm going to look through the game files, maybe it's contained in the wow.sav in each players savegame? or the fact there are 12 major saves and the saves stages you have not done yet contain zeros.


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1392586 - 08/22/04 07:14 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Wireman Offline
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Just went to our brand new local EB. They showed me that they expect WOW in store on August 31. The page date was the 18th of Aug.

#1392587 - 08/22/04 07:32 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Birdbrain Offline
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There is an interesting bunch of sepia shots on the Czech page under "Archiv". Here's Cas's gravel pit with the factory, I think:

http://www.hubertovo.cz/wow/img/arc/WoW_vintage55.jpg


As ever,
Birdbrain
#1392588 - 08/22/04 07:34 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ursus Offline
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Ursus  Offline
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Stockholm, Sweden
Quote:
Originally posted by Polovski:
I made a few gamplay videos, and a video of the menu system and all model previews. Total is arond 60MB so I need somewhere to post them, but if this website has sufficient videos and screenshots maybe there's no need for me to post them.
It would be very nice to have them posted, there are no in-game videos around yet as far as I know. I don't have any webspace, hope someone can host these.

#1392589 - 08/22/04 07:47 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ivor H Offline
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Ivor H  Offline
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I know nothing of these things but I tried to run the mafia .dta file extractor on WoW but it can't handle WoW's rw_data.dll file - or at least that's what the error message says. I've e-mailed the extractor proggie's creator to see if he can help!


When you soar into the air in a Sopwith scout
And you're scrapping with a Hun and your gun cuts out
Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out
'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning!
#1392590 - 08/22/04 08:31 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 329
Drawde Offline
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Drawde  Offline
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Cookham,Berkshire,UK
The .dta files are not in exactly the same format as Mafia or H&D2. Both these games use
completely compressed .dta files, including the file directory (the data at the end of the .dta
file which lists the files stored within it). WoW's files, however are either uncompressed or only partly
compressed, and the file directory is certainly uncompressed. Therefore a standard Mafia file extractor
won't work - but writing a new one should be fairly straightforward. Compressed/encrypted files are an absolute
nightmare to write an extractor for, so if the creator managed to make a Mafia extractor, a WoW one shouldn't
pose much of a challenge!

#1392591 - 08/22/04 10:27 PM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Ivor H Offline
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Ivor H  Offline
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I just managed to get into a team MP game on hard settings - first time I've played online in my life, but I had to see if I could get another one of those lovely planes! - and yes, I could choose them all, so I flew a Pfalz DIII in true Bruno Stachel style (Tho my kill ratio was crap)

Fantastic fun! A little lag at times but dogfighting over those beautiful landscapes and in or against those lovely aircraft, in brilliant and changing weather, is an amazing experience, not to be missed. Worth the price of admission for that alone. WOW! (pun intended!)

Another of WoW's nice touches is the way your engine noise really builds up when you're hurtling earthward and falls off as you labour upwards. And the ambient wind noises, real open cockpit stuff. Great feeling of being in a real plane, in a real world, even if you know you can't tear your wings off pulling out.

Now if the worst of the arcady bits can be disabled - got to be easier to remove stuff than add it - and simple campaigns of hand-made missions added, this will be a winner as a sim too. Even if we might never have structural over-stress damage and other finer points, the overall experience would be enough to lift this into a great experience. Well, it's already a great experience, but the potential...!


When you soar into the air in a Sopwith scout
And you're scrapping with a Hun and your gun cuts out
Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out
'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning!
#1392592 - 08/23/04 12:14 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Posts: 6,543
Polovski Offline
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OK I posted the movies and a few screenshots (temporary). I have more, but no space. I may have to remove these if the bandwidth usage drives the SWWISA guys nuts ;\)

Note only some indicators turned off and you can turn them all off.
Although the campaign would be tough without them totally.
Luckily you can toggle things like the "radar" and info off in flight.

Settings are "hard" and "classic"

Around 6-7MB each.. (right click choose save as)

The external views of DH2:
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/wow_int_view1.avi

The cockpit/internal view of DH2:
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/wow_ext_view2.avi

DH2 downs Eindecker:
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/wow_dogfight3.avi

Shows game menu (1.29MB):
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/wow_menu4.avi

Screenshots @ 1600x1200 (jpeg) (around 600k each)
first 3 are from model preview ("hanger" menu)
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-012.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-024.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-029.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-057.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-059.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-060.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-061.jpg
http://www.swwisa.net/polovski/WoW/WoW-image-064.jpg

S!


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1392593 - 08/23/04 12:41 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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FlyXwire Offline
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St.Charles, Missouri U.S.A.
Sounds great Ivor H:

Quote:
I just managed to get into a team MP game on hard settings - first time I've played online in my life, but I had to see if I could get another one of those lovely planes! - and yes, I could choose them all, so I flew a Pfalz DIII in true Bruno Stachel style (Tho my kill ratio was crap)
:D

Polovski.............man thanks so much for all the media!!!

Takin' a look now............... \:\)

#1392594 - 08/23/04 12:46 AM Re: Wings of War + modding potential - WW1 sim fans please read!  
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Polovski Offline
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No problem FlyXwire, it was hard to choose the best ones to show it off, to show what I think you guys need/would like to see, how the damage works, internal and ext views, landscape etc. As I say, I have more movies and screenshots all worth seeing but can't possibly host them all there \:\)

Let me know what you think. It's hard to do it justice in the movies so compressed, it looks stunning @ 1600x1200 etc and moves even smoother (movie capture slows things down slightly of course).


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
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