#1392307 - 08/05/04 03:02 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Tailgunner
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PArsoft made the code available to a VERY small number of people to allow them to work on patches and bugfixes. There were strict conditions as to what they could or could not do, restrictins around how the code could be released, and no opportunity to commercially exploit the code or release a derivative game.
Wings with Wires cut a deal to develop an Openplane based sim, but I don't know the details of that. Best ask SV over at the WWW site if you seriousely want to pursue that angle.
Otherwise, Argon and co can make a mod with SDOE, but could enver release a full WW1 game based on SDOE. It could only EVER be a mod. IF you wanted to re-vitalise old code, then that could be a good bet. You would need a programmer able to fix all the things that need fixing...and sort out a decent terrain rendering system..but the Openplane engine hidden in SDOE is a good solid base.
Oh..and any attempt to release an OP based sim through the backdoor would result in Activision sueing your backside, and an end to any further SDOE patching....
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#1392309 - 08/05/04 03:25 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Zander
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Wuld have thought they would release it (for a fee) as no money still to be made marketing the sim (been deleted as a budget label). Surely a quiet work would be possible to see what sums are involved?
Gravity is all in the mind...or the beer!
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#1392311 - 08/05/04 03:28 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Zander
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Do we know who it is who has the say regarding this? I strongly suggest a post in the FS:SDOE board or a phone call to the people involved would be an idea?
Gravity is all in the mind...or the beer!
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#1392314 - 08/05/04 03:39 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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FinnN
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Originally posted by Mahoney: Any chance of a combat flight sim based on FS2004? Those pictures look amazing, just amazing. Theoretically, yes. FS2004 has the ability to have extra bits plugged into it (the modules folder) and there's a few modules that are extremely widely used already (mostly to do with weather) and plenty of add-ons that in turn make use of these modules. I'd assume that a module could be written that would take in the position of the aircraft/ground objects and interact with them. Unfortunately I'd imagine for such a complex area (plane AI, collision detection, etc, etc) it would have a hefty framerate hit. FS2004 is nothing if not a resource hog already. And that's before even thinking of something like online play, etc. So in practice it has to be no I think. With the right add-ons though FS2004 is by far the best looking sim at the moment. There's plenty of good freeware planes, although most of the best add-on sceneries are commercial (presumably because of the cost of purchasing the source material).
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#1392315 - 08/05/04 03:50 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Zander
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Fair enough guys - it just seems a terrible waste of so much talent to have all these willing coders and not being able to release code. I am aware of the difficulties in obtaning copyrighted code (I work for a law firm and a good mate of mine is Sony's leading barrister over here in the UK so have heard the war stories!) - even so it seems a pity not tobe able to develop and release code when it could more than do the job we are asking of it!
Gravity is all in the mind...or the beer!
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#1392318 - 08/05/04 04:55 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Tailgunner
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As far as I recall, the approach to Activision was looked at as a 'bunch of enthusiasts' kind of thing. Not fair to the people invovled...but thats part of the problem.
Forming a company, business plan, funding etc. would be an essential to get things on a professional footing.
There was also, as I recall, a bit of a grey area as to who actually OWNED the rights to the code, and who could legally license it. Parsoft don't exist anymore ( I think ) and Activision may not have the authority to allow access to the source.
Those with an existing right to the code have never had that agreement rescinded, so they were unaffected.
If people were serious about using Openplane as a sim base, they need to be aware of a few things.
1) SDOE was a bug laden lash up of a game 2) Openplane was the gem of a physics based engine that lay at the core of SDOE
It's Openplane you want to license, NOT sdoe! I would suggest you get together a 'company'
Next, approach SV over at Wings With Wires. Find out who they approached and what sort of presentation you would need to convince the legal eagles that you have the ability to fund the project and produce a viable project
Then, start looking at ways to fund the whole thing. If the code is made available, you will NOT get it for free.
You will need a good programmer, and someone who will be able to write a game around the basic sim engine.
Bear in mind, also, that there is ALREADY a sim based on the OP engine aimed at WW1 aviation. IF you aim straight at that target, you may find yourself stepping on peoples toes.....so be careful, and be clear EXACTLY what you intend to build, and understand what it will take to achieve this.
Athlon 64 3000 ( S939) 1024Mb DDR 400 (Don't leave home without it) GeForce 6800GT Abit AV8 Pro
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#1392319 - 08/05/04 05:07 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Zander
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Tail which firm do you work for?!
Gravity is all in the mind...or the beer!
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#1392320 - 08/05/04 05:13 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Mahoney
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Tailgunner's post is bang on the money. However, my heart sank when I read this: Originally posted by Tailgunner: There was also, as I recall, a bit of a grey area as to who actually OWNED the rights to the code, and who could legally license it. Parsoft don't exist anymore ( I think ) and Activision may not have the authority to allow access to the source. Sounds like plenty of potential for another totally abortive effort to get rights there. The amount of code knocking around in no fit state to be released and with no-one really knowing who owns the rights is astonishing. Rob
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#1392322 - 08/05/04 08:58 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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ArgonV
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Yeah I'm trying to get myself access to SDOE's code so I can further improve FS-WWI. So far it looks like it's NOT going to happen any time soon. I AM however working very close with VDU to get a few WWI flight modeling aspects implimented like gyro-rotary torque and negative G fuel cut out. Also, we've got a totally new WWI GUI that's 90% complete and a way to get rid of all of the WW2 aspects from SDOE. All I'm waiting for now is Open Plane Studio 2.0 to get fully released and realized so I can have a MUCH more efficent tool to work with and then maybe we can get some better terrain action happening!
"Go Fly A Kite!" -Jason R. FS-WWI Project Leader FS-WWI Plane Pack SiteIntel i9 10900k Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC 64GB Corsair DDR4 2933 Vengeance RGB Pro AMD XFX 7900 XTX Merc310 Black Edition LG UltraGear 38GN95B-B 38" monitor Corsair HX1200 PSU 1TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD 2TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD Two 2TB EVO 860 SSDs Sound Blaster ZxR Win 10 x64 Pro HOTAS Cougar #4069 w/Uber II Nxt mod #284 & UTM bushings
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#1392323 - 08/05/04 09:10 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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ArgonV
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I still think SDOE would be a really really good candidate for the next big thing in WWI. We have tools to work with (Tho not perfect) a decent sized community, some great talent, and with enough effort put it we could have better terrain and game features. We already have 40+ WWI aircraft to fly around in, decent missions, a mission editor for the end-user and decent looking effects and hi-res skins all with a nice physics engine to boot! In all honesty there's not a WHOLE lot that needs doing:
1. Better tools (In-progress, tho the ones we have now work for the most part) 2. WWI specific physics IE gyroscopic torque at the like (In-progress) 3. Better terrain 4. Better AI 5. Dynamic campaign (We have mission sets which do emmerse you. And you CAN play each mission from a different point of view)
What we really need are more coders to help VDU out. Then we could REALLY get the ball rolling!
"Go Fly A Kite!" -Jason R. FS-WWI Project Leader FS-WWI Plane Pack SiteIntel i9 10900k Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC 64GB Corsair DDR4 2933 Vengeance RGB Pro AMD XFX 7900 XTX Merc310 Black Edition LG UltraGear 38GN95B-B 38" monitor Corsair HX1200 PSU 1TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD 2TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD Two 2TB EVO 860 SSDs Sound Blaster ZxR Win 10 x64 Pro HOTAS Cougar #4069 w/Uber II Nxt mod #284 & UTM bushings
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#1392324 - 08/05/04 09:54 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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**DONOTDELETE**
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Originally posted by Xanty: Yes, I think the Il-2 way or the SFP1 is the only viable platform to do a good WW1 add-on (online/offline) The targetware engine is only online, so i would pass...
If we got serious about it and 10-20 modellers made one single plane, in 3 months we could give them to Oleg and try our luck to it. However, modellers seem to be least interested... the less modellers, the less it is achieved. If 10 would work seriously on it, more would join, specially after PF is out of the way. Xanty, it sure would be nice to see some of the work you did for the WW1 Project posted over at Netwings again. Did you ever finish that bird?
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#1392325 - 08/05/04 10:28 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Daze
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Argon may be right FS-WW1 is probably the closest to done ww1 sim available. Consider adding better sounds to your list tho. And I worry about mmp coding. But the planes looks great!! and I don't think the terrain is bad. Plus remember all the ww1 vehicles and such that have been made.
"It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed."
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#1392326 - 08/05/04 11:03 PM
Re: New thread...just read...let's start a new WW1 sim
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Tailgunner
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One thing about extra coders for SDOE WW1 .... are they ALLOWED to work on the code? Would VDU be breaching the conditions under which he is allowed code access if he passes copies of the source to another programmer? Anyway....thats a moot point. There are some fundamental things that hold back further development of SDOE and they are probably going to need a lot of code effort to do. 1) AI ... the AI is not well geared to WW1 planes. It was always a 'turn on your tail' 1 trick pony. 2) Terrain. The way the terrain is rendered prevents detail. Look at, for example, the way UT2004 does terrain. IT is converting a greyscale heightmap to polygons on the 'fly'. The closer the heightmap points are to the viewer, the higher the detail. It pulls fewer points further out. This gives a seamless reduction in polycount over distance. It also supports multi-layer textures for added detail. You can't get close to that with a fixed single lod mesh object terrain. 3) Campaign. SDOE fixed missions are only going to get you so far. There is no true dynammic campaign and no way to roll resources over into successive missions. There are no random 'quick shot' missions either. Scripted missions date. 4) Pilot code is pooched! I remember trying to make a pilot that 'slumped' to give a visual clue to pilot kill. No joy. Plus they keep jumping! These are things that only code access will cure. At the moment, there is only 1 guy with code access, and he is busy. VERY busy. Busy on some very interesting stuff, but it's not SDOE
Athlon 64 3000 ( S939) 1024Mb DDR 400 (Don't leave home without it) GeForce 6800GT Abit AV8 Pro
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