Recently it was announced that development on the WW1 flight sim, Knights Over Europe (KOE), had ceased. One of the few remaining individuals at the development company, 3D/2D Artist John MacKay, has asked SimHQ to conduct a reader's poll. The poll will help to determine if there is sufficient interest and support in the flight sim community for the ideas that SimHQ KOE Forum members put forth to raise funds so KOE could be completed and brought to market.

Update - August 4th: John has posted an important message here you should read. The poll will remain open because it provides valuable information and comments regarding the flight sim industry. Best of luck John with "Project A" and we hope to hear more from you after it's completed.

How about another question: Would you be willing to shell out more for a great flight sim than for other games to make the genre more profitable? Say $150 US? If they cost 3X the normal game price, then the developers would only need to sell 1/3 as many. I for one would pay $150 for a RB4.

This poll is all well and good. I answered yes to all but the newsletter question. But there is one missing point that is very important if such a plan is undertaken.

If this is the way KOE will go, it can't be handled like a traditional development process. Those of us that are ponying up money in advance are essentially invenstors in the company. I for one what to know what I am investing in.

Much more disclosure is necessary. I would want to fully understand what it is that I will be getting in the end. I understand that things change and may be released in stages but if the product concept isn't appealing, I wouldn't pay for it over the counter much less in advance before it is developed.

Secondly, I want to know with whom I am doing business. What is the credibility of the group and what is the likelihood that they will succeed from the prospective of their developement skills and their ability to stay in business long enough?

What would this money be used for? Salaries? Other expenses? A way to secure additional financing?

Finally, the remnants of Aspect better check into the business and legal ramifications of this approach. There may be restrictions on this type of company financing. (That's what it is really.) There may be different liabilities to the partners.

1st off, I truly am awaiting KoE!

If the 'normal' distribution shouldn't be advisable, then a CD mailed to me would be fine, too. A download could be problematic due to the estimated size of nowaday's sims, though; if you don't have a flat-rate, the several hours it would take to download it would add to the price, too.

However, I wouldn't mind paying a good price for a good sim; I definitively would not wait for a budget-version but buy it as soon as released. Liek I said: I'm waiting for it, it's a "I must have this", not a "I'd like to try it out" game. I wouldn't pay in advance, though - paying in advance of it being shipped, OK, but not before there's something to release, sorry.

That's another point: what would be considered a "final" to be released? What would be "released in steps/stages"? Or, to put it slightly differntly: what guarantee would be there that it would get finished? The reason why I'm asking simply is fiascos like "Strike Fighters", please bear with me.

Add-ons are a comletely different matter, though: if the sim's good it makes appetite for more, sure. I definitively would be interested in add-ons supposed the sim itself is good; if the add-ons are barely patches to make the original release playable, then "no THX", though.

Why a newsletter? If it would be a newsletter about KoE and future developments, OK, but for me, personally, please no 3rd party ads. What I'm interested in is covered in the magazine(s) I read already, you know.

I understand that KoE's future is depending on us as potential customers. I know that we're a niche-market, too. I'd be willing to pre-order if this would guarantee a release, but I wouldn't be willing to pre-pay without any guarantees. (Besides, I'm married - my wife would skin me alive if I did, and serve me right.) I'd be willing to do everything useful to support KoE being released - within the limits of common sense.

If it should come, fine; if not it'll be a boring time for us WWI-nuts...

Good questions Chevelle, and the pitch might derive it's form a little from the model that Battlefront's Combat Mission utilized, or even Kess's pre-payment marketing for Full Canvas Jacket.

I'm sure we all want to know what our money might be going towards, and with strong quarantees we can understand and then get what we paid for, but as far as being investors goes............well, although we providing seed money for eventual completion of KOE, we're only prepaying for a product or service..........nothing more, and nothing less.

This poll is merely step one in the process I would think, if there's support in the idea and the community.........then the plan's detailing will have to follow (and the process must be transparent).

Bottom line...........I hope this happens (obviously), and I hope a few people involved in the devlopment might make some money out of KOE's release too, but I think there might be just a little pride involved in the process also (I hope so)!

Aspect came to create and sell us a WWI sim, and someone/something detroyed that dream!

But that dream.....and all that hard work aint over just yet!!!

I hope to be one of the first to secure my copy once this is a "go".

If we're going to succeed, we're going to need all kinds of people involved in the process. We'll definitely need people with the fire and drive of FlyXwire. But we're also going to need people like Chevelle and DonULFonso asking questions that require honest and straight answers from myself and G. Stottlemyer. I'm looking forward to working with you all. I also suspect that if I'm asked enough questions and I give enough details in the answer that there will come a time when some of my answers don't please everybody. I'm not running for political office nor am I trying to win a popularity contest. I am trying to let people know what's happened to KOE and I'm also trying to find a way to finish it.

While the poll has just started, I'm already surprised by the results. Which proves why it's so important to take these polls. When we have our planning meetings it will be so much better to go into them and say, look here are 500 people who have said that they would be willing to buy our sim over the internet, rather than having to say, well I have a gut feeling people might want to do this.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to take the poll. The software that SimHQ uses to conduct the polls has limits on the number of questions that can be asked and the length of the text used in the questions. Thanks to guod and SimHQ for helping us out.

How do we know this isn't just some con job? You don't want people to come to Denver. Aspect never behaved as a normal company to the point some here believed the whole thing was a hoax. The screenshots look okay but the sky doesn't look right. Something looks 'odd' when you look at the backdrop of the screenshots.

Can you supply some sort of guarantee that there IS and CAN BE a WW1 flight sim in the works here?

It would be useful to make sure work is progressing, but since Knights Over Europe was at lasts year's E3 (I think that's what it's called), I very much doubt it is a "con job".

Seventy potential customers in the first ten hours. So far, so good.

God Pen...you weren't asked to pay cash yet, just if you would under certain circumstances.

So why dont you wait with fraud accusitions till you're asked for your CC Number?

I've met Eddie W at Duxford, known him for a lot longer. He was one of the Leads in Target for Tonight Development.

When he says he was a contract modeller for KoE, and when he explains the story, that's guarantee enough for me.

I'd be willing to pay up front for a product in development if there were some perks involved in return. Perks like weekly updates, an idea of where the programmers were headed with development, the possibility of being a beta tester, and getting a final release version before it was released to the general public.

I really wouldn't be interested in getting a game that might be completed in stages unless those stages were built upon a games that was at least 80% complete. If the stages were items like a dynamic campaign, extra maps, ect. then OK. If it means a game that lacks features like an up to date flight model, multi-play or a graphics engine not viewed as state of the art then no.

I like the idea of a sim that is produced with help from the sim community. I'd volunteer to help skin planes, ground targets and the like.

Rjel2003

I hope to see some progress when I'll return from my 2 weeks trips I'm gonna leave for tomorrow...

I do appreciate this 1st step of checking the grounds for a closer communication and cooperation with the interested community (bear with my poor wording: I'm German and dunno how to express it better).

I suppose Aspect Simulations know that this will require an open and honest atmosphere if it's meant to show results - probably more open and honestly than both sides are used to and comfortable with... at 1st, at least. The aim, however, should be worth a try .

One thing I would be willing to do is sign some sort of "binding" pre-order and thereby guarantee that I'll buy KoE when released; dunno whether that's legally possible, it's just a thought. (Mind, I'm talking of a fully finished sim running "as is", with contents "as advertized" respectively as to be listed; bear with me if I fear the "Stike Fighter"-factor.)

Will check back in 2 weeks...

Very interesting post Rjel2003:

So what you want is The Sims of sims!

Awesome!!!

Sure, why not..........we could get updates almost like we were doing the developing ourselves, following it's progress, watching this sim progress towards beta, and even interacting (to a degree) in the process, and then we get to participate in the beta testing before it goes Gold!

The Sims of flight sim's development........but of course!

Now who wants to syndicate this idea for a reality TV show (I can tell you one thing........Destineer is out of the running)!!!

(post-note) DonULFonso your English is great.......I just had to come back and correct mine! Have a great holiday btw.

I wasn't making any accusations, I was only asking a legitimate question.

It is good to know they were at an E3, I didn't know this. And if you've known and met him before then that's good enough for me too.

Wonder if Aspect have ever tried shopping KOE to Matrix Games? Matrix supports small independent developers and have digital downloads for a number of their games. If they published Starshatter then I don't see why they would'nt be interested in KOE.

To Pen and other like minded people.

Let's nip some misconceptions in the bud.

KOE was never at any E3. 2003 or 2004

After about a year of internal development, Aspect Simulations put up a website announcing the development of KOE to the public. A few publishers showed interests in picking up KOE. One of the main reasons why Destineer was picked over the others was that they made several promises about making public announcements about being the publisher and that they would set-up a KOE website and draft up and implement a marketing plan. We were very concerned when they started to fail to keep their promises, and our concern was communicated to them in several ways. When the producer asked to be allowed to step in and do more on our own website, he was told that was the responsibility of the publisher. We all had more than enough work of our own to do, without taking on the extra work of doing the publisher's job for them.

As for why I don't want people to come to Denver and "check us out." It's not that we are trying to hide something or that we don't have anything to show, it's just that we are currently lacking in resources to properly entertain you while you're here. Besides, it's a very long drive to DIA from anywhere and with gas prices being what they are, I'd rather not make the trip.

As for the appearence of the skies in the screen shots. There is a reason why every website with screenshots of a game in development puts up a giant disclaimer about the pictures being from a "work in progress." They're trying to minimize comments like yours.

Destineer stopped paying Aspect Simulations. Aspect had to stop development of KOE. Those of us remaining at Aspect are implementing a plan to rescue the effort and resources that were put into KOE. Part of that plan is to let the WW1 flight sim community know what's happened to us and to gather information about what support there might be for our efforts to continue.

I do not appreciate being called a fraud. But it's the price we pay for being quiet so long. But I still don't care for it.

Well you aint quiet now Xeidos2, and that's a beautiful thing!

Hey you know.........the more pissed you get, the more we learn!!!

Oh yes.......we have ways to make you talk.

Some good info and some interesting ideas being posted here. I'm very much hoping you guys are going to be able to pull this off.
I eagerly await further developments and intend to offer what ever support I can. Have answered yes to all 5 poll questions but I do have reservations along the lines of what has already been mentioned by others.

Good luck, Bk

p.s. especially liked that pre-release beta testing idea.

Sorry, Xeidos2, I wasn't calling you a fraud, I was asking for what proofs we have before we send you money. I feel that is a reasonable question to ask. But sorry to upset you I simply won't send money to names on a forum unless someone somewhere can verify they are who they say they are. If Colonel says he's met Eddie W. then I believe him. That is proof.

Let me make some more clarifications.
Neither I nor Aspect is asking anyone to send us money nor to raise money for us. Not now anyway. We simply are asking the community what they are willing to support once we do have a real product to offer. The survey is barely a day old but it already seems to indicate that there's a lot more willingness to buy over the internet and to buy a product in stages than we ever imagined. For us this is very encouraging news. It makes finishing KOE a much more viable prospect than it was a couple of weeks ago.

While I've not met him face to face, Eddie_W (as he's known on this forum) has made some excellent models for us, and I get the impression from his e-mails that he's as fine as others say he is. My hope is that we'll be getting some more work from him in the future. So if you buy Pacific Fighters when it comes out, you'll be helping Ed. If you help Ed, you're helping us. If you help us you'll have a better chance of getting KOE. Then you'll be able to help yourselves.