[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SAAxJIsWB...432628814208652[/img]

Maybe we're not down and out just yet, as Xeidos2 asks:

It was about two months between the time Destineer stopped paying for KOE and the remaining people from Aspect (me and the president of Aspect, Gary Stottlemyer) started to excute the plan we came up with to rescue our efforts. We discussed many of the ideas that people have shared on this forum and I'm impressed with how insightful some of the comments have been. You would think these people had been in the meeting room with us, their thoughts were so similar to ours. But there were many ideas that came up that had to be left on the table simply because there was no way to know what the market really would support.

So I'm going to write to the moderators of this forum and see if they can help us do a couple of more polls.

I'd like to find out how many people would be willing to pre-pay for a flight sim like KOE.

Would they be willing to subscribe to an internet newsletter that covered the development of the sim? The proceeds from the newsletter would help raise the capital to pay for the completion of the sim. Subscribers to the newsletter would get a big discount on the costs of the sim once it was ready for sale. They would get exclusive screen shots during development and they would get a chance to help in the beta testing.

Are people willing to buy a sim over the internet or do they want to get it in a store, where they can take it back if they don't like it?

How would we make ourselves credible to the community? Is there someone from these forums whom people trust? If we flew that person to Denver and gave them some stick time with KOE, or whatever we decide to re-name it, and they said it was the real deal and that it was good, would that be enough to get people to invest money in us?

Would people be willing to have their name's and e-mails put on a list so that we could contact them when there was some positive news about the rescue of KOE?

We'll never know until somebody starts asking questions. The more we know, the better decisions we'll make. I believe it's possible to be successful at something that's not been tried before. I suspect there's a lot more support from the community than developers or publishers ever realized. I believe the key is being open and honest and accountable. I also believe in not being stupid and setting unrealistic goals. I also believe no matter what we do, some will be critical of our efforts. I also believe this is not the end of the KOE story.

Come on guys, if you haven't already read it here, then it's time to show your hopes for KOE yet by expressing your support here:

At this SimHQ Thread

LETS GET THIS SIM DONE!!!

.............and the latest WWI "sims" news from the "sleeping giant":

As fellow fan member Greg Sharp penned over on the Wings With Wires forum just this morning:

Okay, someone is thinking enough of a WW I game to put it on Xbox. It's release date is 9/7/2004 in the US. It looks like this is Wings of Honour beefed up a bit.

BritishSpy I know how you feel about this one. But at least WW I is hitting main stream a bit. Could it be because of the upcoming movie with the Fokker DVIIs in it? I don't want to promote another game, I'm just saying that if Microsoft and Take2 will stick thier necks out for this crap, then yours will truly sell. Here's the home page of their publisher.

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UwDZAlwah...482310182542035[/img]

..........and when the console fans get tired of flying all these jazzy rigs in Wings OF War, they'll be juiced to fly something with a little more depth like Knights Over Europe perhaps!

LETS GET THIS SIM DONE!!!

Your support is needed:

At this SimHQ Thread

I was not aware of the development of Wings of War for the Xbox until this morning. Look at who the developer and publisher are. The Gathering and TakeTwo. Look at the release date, September 2004.

Destineer and TakeTwo have become so intertwined with one another, you can't talk about one without considering the other. The Gathering was to have been the master distributer for KOE and it was scheduled for release in September.

Things don't look right from where I'm sitting.

Do we have our motive..............

Time to sue. Seriously.

Droops

..........and while we're on the M-word, perhaps their motivation wasn't limited by money, but more because of maneuver..........or should that be MANURE!!!

S!

Was talking to some buds about this yesterday. I just find it hard to believe that there isn't a market for a WW1 sim.
In the realm of paper wargames WW1 is a mainstream topic these days showing there is an interest in the era.
Perhaps I'm comparing apples and oranges, but I am hopeful that a display of support for this project can grab the interest of someone in a position to make it happen.

Hautz

It should go forward!!!

In the meantime I'm wondering if KOE befell the classic "conflict of interest" (to put it mildly)?

Like Droops said, I'm thinkin' it certainly is possible that KOE was secured, or dropped subsequently so as not to conflict with another related WWI flight game product, as part of Destineer's interrelated marketing strategy.

Time to put the pieces together, and entertain a blocking order......et all!!!

What an incredible coincidence! Destineer bails on the KOE project and all of a sudden a company they are partnered with is releasing an arcade WWI shooter for Microsofts XBox?!?! A product that will probably sell them 100,000 copies in a week!

Looks like Destineer was being more calculated then we thought. Wonder if there is any legal action that can be taken against Destineer on behalf of Aspect?

If true, that definately sounds like a breach of contract to me. I mean why not dump a realistic and expensive to produce computer based game for a less involved/unrealistic arcade type that will be available on TV consoles? It will definately have a wider market exposure, not to mention production will be much less involved due to its lack of accuracy in its creation.

Kess
The Promised Land

Whoa - this needs a good look, because there seems to be obvious infringement here. This is HIGHLY suspicious, and not unheard of, after all: I can think of an example in the movie business where a guy proposed scripts to 20th Century Fox (I think?), had them rejected, and then ended up seeing his scripts come to the big screen anyway.

He's now in the process of suing 20th Century Fox.

Can't remember his name or the film scripts he's responsible for writing, but he was on the John Zigler show in KFI here in Los Angeles.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-FranksValli

well you don`t have to be albert einstein to see whats going on here.

it certainly answers a lot of questions that have been going through my small brain.

Wings of War? Never heard of it. It is not listed on Gamespots list of Xbox games. The only WW1 flight sim listed anywhere on Gamespot is KOE on the PC page.

So, where did this game come from out of the blue? Has anyone heard of this game before? It must have been in development for some time if it is due out in a little over a month!

There are several heavy hitter games due out this fall for Xbox. Games that have been promoted for months and are highly anticipated. The point being there is going to be some stiff competition out there for some unheard of, under promoted flight sim. It better be good, even fantastic, or it will get buried big time.

"I also believe in not being stupid and setting unrealistic goals."

I think this is really a key point regarding any endeavor to pick up the pieces of KOE and press on with it.

I had to jump back in the forum cause this is interesting.

This is really startling news and I am wondering how far does the rabbit hole go.

Quite the detective work guys. Can I be Watson?

Here is an interesting thought:

City Interactive's Wings Of Honour is supposed to be for sale but go to ebgames and try to find it. It is not listed as for sale or pre-order. However, Wings Of War comes up in the list at the top. I went to Amazon too and there is no Wings Of Honour for sale. If these two aren't carrying the title, I doubt it is even for sale. It's not even listed on Chips & Bits. What did they do: Distribute 10 copies and call it a day?

So, no Wings Of Honour and an almost identical game called Wings Of War is on its way.

It sounds to me like they sold the rights to Take2 & Gathering to own and distribute it who re-purposed the City game for the Xbox for a quick profit. Maybe this is why KOE got dropped in mid development. The other game is more cost-effective to sell and distribute. Why they could not release both is beyond me. The genre is the same but the targeted consumer is totally different. Artistic license issues?

Gathering did Fly and Fly II so I thought they would be more supportive of a flight simulation title. My, how times have changed unfortunately.

This is a story that would Agatha Christie take notice.

It looks like ammunititon for Aspect's lawyer to me or at least something they can confront Destineer & Take2 with.

Hopefully, the fact it is an Xbox title and not a PC title will not throw a wrench in the gears.

Bizarre...

S!

http://asy.tatanka.pl/asy/gb_index.html this is where the arcade game started, Aces of the Air->Aces of WWI->Wings of Honour->Wings of War?

Forgot one: added Aces of WWI

Yea I think so. Have fun trying to find a copy for sale. Let me know if you locate it.

S!

Here's the link to the Xbox game, not yet released
http://www.videogameslife.com/pages/game/1408.htm

I had a meeting with GS (pres. of Aspect) today and told him about seeing this announcement about Wings of War. He had not heard of it before. I asked him if there was any way TakeTwo and The Gathering could steal our models since they were involved with Destineer. He said no. The only way was if we had been double-crossed by a former co-worker. There's no evidence that happened. It would be very much out of character. But I will be looking very closely at any screenshots of the planes in this game that might be posted.

I see one Copy of "Wings of Honour" on ebay, and seven copies of "Aces of WWI" on amazon.

@Xeidos2 Seriously doubt they're using your models as I doubt they'd want that much detail in their "crap" game.

An excellent idea, FlyXwire!. The Fighter Ops people who are working on a successor of Falcon 4.0 are doing something like this (see http://www.fighterops.com). I would be willing to sponsor the development of a new WWI sim (or KoE) with a three-figure sum if there is a good plan. Also, I can probably generate some free publicity since I write about simulators (and real aviation) for the Dutch magazine ‘Piloot & Vliegtuig’ (‘Pilot & Airplane, for more information see http://www.pilootenvliegtuig.nl).

FlyXwire, you show us the right spirit. It is up to the community to secure the future of flight sims. For some time I felt that customers have been so demanding in terms of both breadth and depth of simulators, and developers have been so intent on satisfying this niche ‘elite’ market for mass-market prices, that it had to go wrong. If we want PC sims to be as close to the real thing as possible, we must remember that professional simulators cost millions, and that’s not only because of the hardware. So I think it is only fair that we are prepared to pay more for our semi-professional sims than Joe Sixpack pays for his FPS. FlyXwire’s idea provides both a source of funding and a way to reduce risk, so I’m all for it. But it will only work under two conditions:
- Enough of us have to participate. Count me in;
- We should not see our sponsorship as FlyXwire envisions it as a 100% pre-payment for our sims. So, if we pay $50 for the sponsorship we cannot expect to get a 50% discount.
- Developers need to be more focused. They should not start with a simulation of the whole First World War, but with a limited (high fidelity) scenery and number of planes, but make clear that the sim will be expanded with payware addons. This means once again, that we will pay more for our sims. I think that this is the way Fighter Ops is going.