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#1391956 - 07/30/04 12:26 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 41
Chevelle Offline
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Chevelle  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 41
Rochester, NY
I offered to support a KOE website complete with forum many months ago. My offer still stands. If KOE is a serious contender, I am prepared to completely turn Wings Of Valor over to a KOE site or put up another.

I offered to work on utilites similar to the ones that I've done for Red Baron.

I provided the outline of specifications for control features building on the work done by RB modders, the Tail Wind effort, and others.

I offered to use Wings Of Valor as a central point of communication between Aspect and the community for the exchange of ideas and suggestions and the release of information regarding the development progress. "Buzz Central" if you will.

Frankly, all I got a patronizing pat on the head basically saying, "Thanks but we've got it handled."

Even so, all those offers still stand. Then, as now, you know where to find me.

Chevelle
chevelle@wings-of-valor.net

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#1391957 - 07/30/04 01:20 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,080
FlyXwire Offline
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FlyXwire  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,080
St.Charles, Missouri U.S.A.
We feel your pain Chevelle!

Just here recently Xeidos2 mentioned that Gary Stottlemyer (president of Aspect) doesn't even read these KOE forums (any of them)!

Well, it's time he did..............

Sure they're a hot bed of debate and discussion, but they're also one of the best sources for pulsing the marketplace........from the enthusiasts that are most interested in buying your product!

Lastly, and I'll try not to be too curt (again ;\) ), but once, and if a reoriented KOE effort goes forward, there's going to be a much greater demand for information than what we've grown to experience with this sim thus far (somewhat understandable now tho). Again, that's the point of a community/corporate driven effort, it's a symbiotic relationship.

WE need you, and YOU need us!

#1391958 - 07/30/04 02:45 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 87
Kemal Offline
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Kemal  Offline
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Posts: 87
I was really sorry to hear the news regarding Aspect and KOE.Like a lot of other people,i was really looking forward to this sim/game.
I enjoy skinning aircraft for IL2/FB and i would be very happy giving up my free time to do some for KOE.This probably isn't the most important type of help that is needed but my offer will stand if you need it.Good luck.

Hector.

You can find my skins at il2skins.com under the name hector.

#1391959 - 07/30/04 04:40 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
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Posts: 677
Tailgunner Offline
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Posts: 677
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I don't know...nip off for a fewdays, and it all starts to get interesting again \:D

As far as some of the points raised here go, I see a lot of cause for hope. I am surprised, though, at the reluctance of game developers to read the forums. Sure, they cop a hefty dose of 'Archie' from the plebs...but they also get loyalty from the calmer heads. Additionally, had Xeidos2 not posted here, the dev team would still be unaware how many people want them to find a way to finish!

Anyway....if there is any way my humble skills can be of use, just say the word \:D


Athlon 64 3000 ( S939)
1024Mb DDR 400 (Don't leave home without it)
GeForce 6800GT
Abit AV8 Pro
#1391960 - 07/30/04 05:26 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,080
FlyXwire Offline
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FlyXwire  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,080
St.Charles, Missouri U.S.A.
WTG WTG.............um, make that WTG WakeupTailGunner! \:D

#1391961 - 07/30/04 06:05 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Goodwood Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Goodwood  Offline
Bit of a chowderhead
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,406
Detroit - in the Danger Zone!
If you're serious about having me skinning for any future builds, email me at goodNOSPAMwood_englandNOSMAP@yahooNOSPAM.com

(just remove the NOSPAM tags)

I have some experience in skinning pre-incorporated aircraft (like the Spit XVI for FB that wasn't wanted), so I should be able to help.


LukeFF: Oleg got rid of his moustache! eek

akdavis: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
#1391962 - 07/31/04 12:51 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,169
Polovski Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,169
I'd be willing to help with anything I can.

The guys kindly offered me the chance to join SWWISA a while ago on the basis of help I gave in the forums etc.. can do technical and graphics.
(currently work for security software company),

My (basic ;\) ) website is here..
http://people.delphiforums.com/Polovski/

Also I would be willing to pay a good amount (like 50 UK) in advance to help with dev of the game given the idea of newsletter/insider info/good discount on final game etc, maybe even early release of a smaller game that builds up over time. Like a magazine sub with model parts each month \:D


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of epic, immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1391963 - 07/31/04 05:06 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,139
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,139
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
Sorry to hear the news...the community needs a new WW1 sim badly, the WW1 nuts have been waiting so many years and all hope was put in KOE...

John (Xeidos), I can't be off much help. One thing is I for one would be willing to pre-pay for development, even if you dont release "early and often" as Osram suggested.

I'm not sure if it's good advise, but you could try contacting Carl Norman from Eagle Dynamics - perhabs he could hook you up with Nick Grey, the Boss of The Fighter Collection. Grey has his own Spitfire, he's certainly a certified aviation nut - and got plenty of cash. Perhabs 125.000 Bucks are not too much for him.

Guess that depends mainly on how satisfied he is with the LOMAC Results.

I belive, judging by the rumours about LOMAC and Addons, that ED is currently looking into ways of going without Ubisoft for their next project, whatever that may be - Carl had good plans for independent flightsim development in 2003 when I met him at Duxford.

I guess if he views you as competition you won't get much help - but Carl has been part of the flightsim community since the old SSI Days, he's a cool guy, perhabs he's willing to help the community get a WW1 sim - if his next project is still what I belive you're not targeting the same corner of the market anyway...

Furthermore, the only other puplisher I could perhabs see as helpfull would be 1C in Russia - Oleg's Guys. But I guess that 125.000 are a little steep for them.

Perhabs a mix of community pre-payment and a small puplisher would yield results. Afterall if you cut out most of the marketing and make it an online-only venture you'll only need 2500 to 3000 sales to break even.

Online Only is certainly fine with a lot of the dedicated simmer community...that's how Battlefront started with their combat mission series, same for Steel Beasts.

So, that's my ideas so far. I'm currently too busy for building/maintaining websites outside of my day work, but should that change I'll give you a holler.

Good luck, anyway.

#1391964 - 07/31/04 06:52 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,522
Wklink Offline
Permanent Latrine Orderly
Wklink  Offline
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Hotshot

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,522
Olympia, Washington
I'll offer whatever help I can. With the way my time is right now it may not be much but whatever I can do I will try to help.

At least the folks at SimHQ can probably try to keep the thought alive.


The artist formerly known as SimHq Tom Cofield
#1391965 - 07/31/04 06:59 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,522
Wklink Offline
Permanent Latrine Orderly
Wklink  Offline
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Hotshot

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Posts: 9,522
Olympia, Washington
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyXwire:
We feel your pain Chevelle!

Just here recently Xeidos2 mentioned that Gary Stottlemyer (president of Aspect) doesn't even read these KOE forums (any of them)!

Well, it's time he did..............

Sure they're a hot bed of debate and discussion, but they're also one of the best sources for pulsing the marketplace........from the enthusiasts that are most interested in buying your product!

Lastly, and I'll try not to be too curt (again ;\) ), but once, and if a reoriented KOE effort goes forward, there's going to be a much greater demand for information than what we've grown to experience with this sim thus far (somewhat understandable now tho). Again, that's the point of a community/corporate driven effort, it's a symbiotic relationship.

WE need you, and YOU need us!
Agreed.

Yes Oleg Maddox got a lot of crap on the boards he visited but he also got some really good ideas and his participation really made the interest in the game peak. I do honestly believe that part of the reason IL2 sold as well as it did was due to his continued presence on the boards. People knew exactly what was coming and where and the anticipation made the release even more spectacular.

I don't say that he should answer every question but there are folks here that come up with some intelligent questions from time to time. Right now the posts here are small enough that he won't have to work too hard. However if this does move forward it will get quite busy here, or wherever the 'main board' for the game ends up.


The artist formerly known as SimHq Tom Cofield
#1391966 - 07/31/04 08:28 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  

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Hi!

I'm new to this board and I'm sorry to hear that the game has been cancelled. After reading the postings here, I cannot help but saying this.

Please, do not involve Oleg in this. Why? Because IL2 is way overrated. Sure, the graphics are nice, real nice, and the FM is OK but the atmosphere? The game is completly without a soul. It could aswell have been a "JANE's" product where you have to succed in each mission before you're allowed to play the next. How silly!. In IL2 you start the game, press play and you're of into the air. You don't get any feeling that your accually in a squadron. After the mission you get a small note on how many kills you've got and then you press play again. I know there has been som enhancements with add-ons, but if you compare this with the old RB2, IL2 doesnt stand a chance.

I think this community is looking for a WWI experience more than "just a flight sim". That means that pretty graphics alone won't do. What i've read so far about KOE sounds promising and in order to satisfy the WWI flight community they will have to stick to this. Don't panic! Don't rush something out to the market which is halfdone or slimmed down. That won't work. Remember what happened when RB2 first was launched. People were less than happy.

Please, feel free to comment on this.

Best Regards,

Hptm. Otto Von Braus

#1391967 - 07/31/04 04:04 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,139
RSColonel_131st Offline
Lifer
RSColonel_131st  Offline
Lifer

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25,139
Vienna, 2nd rock left.
Like it or not, Oleg's 1C Puplisher in Russia may be one of the few who you can thrust when it comes to flightsim development.

Also you are talking about IL-2...you seem to have missed Forgotten Battles, which has a lot more soul.

Furthermore, trying to get some kind of deal with 1C doesn't mean Oleg will decide what kind of gameplay KOE has.

#1391968 - 07/31/04 05:14 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 324
PVT_Roger Offline
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PVT_Roger  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 324
Davenport, IA U.S.A.
If not for Oleg, those of us who enjoy WWII aerial combat online with friends would be in a real pickle right now.

As for what he could do with WWI, we can only dream...



#1391969 - 07/31/04 05:30 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
ivanmoe Offline
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ivanmoe  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2
As flight sims, IL2 and FB, quirks aside, are terrific products. But they are limited by the public's RELATIVE lack of interest in flying on the Eastern front in WW2.

Then there's that creel of eels, CFS3. The subject matter is of higher interest, given that 90% of potential buyers are from countries that were involved in the campaign. But darn't, the damn thing still locks up my machine sometimes.

LOMAC is doing well enough sales wise, no?

These things said, I think that Pacific Fighters is gonna make Ubi a nice profit, one that will hopefully encourage more publishers to give QUALITY products a shot.

The whole point being that flight sims AREN'T dead. To be successful, they just have to bring together the right technology and the right subject matter. Devotees can't depend on the likes of Micro$oft or EA to churn them out for us any longer, that's all. But when there's money to be made, some outfit will emerge to make it all happen.

My two cents,

Ivanmoe

#1391970 - 08/01/04 05:26 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  

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S! all,
Dang, this thread is a long read!

Realy sorry to hear about the probable demise of our long awaited WW1 sim.

I've been flying the RB3D sim since it first came out (before Multiplay) and I have seen it come a long way beyond what the original developers ever dreamed of.

If I could offer my opinion based on no real understanding of how to put a game like this together:

Dynamix created RedBaron3D with the capability of allowing the user to customize the look of the planes, swap out sound files, etc. In essence I think RB3D's long life is due to this "crack in the door" which others expanded on to include new plane models complete with FM's, rear fireing guns, new terrain, etc. all I might add for virtualy no profit (Kessler being one of the few exceptions, I love my FJC BTW, well worth the money).

So, really we just need some open architecture here. We need to get about 64 folks in a game and be able to customize the dickens out of it so we can build war games in every theater from WW1 to beyond our atmosphere (we being the end users).

This sim community seems to have many programers, artists and historians within its group, more resources then most game companies most likely.

Tying the sim to a publisher may only get us into the same fix we are in with RB3D and apperently are in with KOE; They won't sell the code and they won't support the sim! either way we are getting screwed. As stated above, I bought a copy of Kessler's FJC. He sent me a CD with no fancy graphics, just a plain white wrapper, heck I didn't care! I was after the game not the box.

Creating a sim model that is truely versital, customizable and open to the end use will broaden the user base and insure long term interest.

If Kessler can do it why can't someone else? Having a sim created by a world wide network of developers and artisans should be worth some magazine articles, etc. This kind of colaberation by end users does not happen often, this fact could be used to gain media coverage and this kind of exposure will certainly boost interest and help gain supporters.

I find it hard to believe that we have no lawyer amoung us with the ability to create an agreement between the potential developers of a game like this.

Whatever happens; best of luck Xeidos2, hope you find a new job soon. Your efforts are appreciated.

BTW got my $50 waiting just in case somthing should happen ;\)

#1391971 - 08/02/04 02:05 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  

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Quote:
Originally posted by LE_Razor:
Having a sim created by a world wide network of developers and artisans should be worth some magazine articles, etc. This kind of colaberation by end users does not happen often, this fact could be used to gain media coverage and this kind of exposure will certainly boost interest and help gain supporters.
It's been tried before. Ever heard of 17 Hours? Check my recent thread about whistling in the empty room to see a quick discussion about what happened there.

Droops

#1391972 - 08/02/04 10:43 PM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 115
scary_pigeon Offline
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scary_pigeon  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 115
britain
the community can be rather useful - keen they are on seeing new flightsims. and when problems arise, particularly research problems, the community knows much.

So you only really need a couple of techical people and a bit of determination.

#1391973 - 08/03/04 10:12 AM Re: An open letter from a former KOE developer  

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Anonymous
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If you're serious about continuing development of KOE, why not speak to some people with experience of developing a sim in this manner: I'd recommend getting in touch with Live For Speed , they marketed a racing sim released in stages and seem to have done it very well. I'm sure they'd be willing to give you some advice.

Good luck with KOE, I hope this one sees the light of day

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