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#1391253 - 04/08/04 06:40 PM Wing failures  
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"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
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#1391254 - 04/08/04 08:16 PM Re: Wing failures  
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One addendum: The last line comments that the DRI can still maintain lift with the two lower wings. There is further evidence of this in Lothar von Richthofens account of haveing his top wing blown off in combat. Lothar, despite loss of lift and no aelerons, made a semi controlled crash and survived.

The flip side to this is that Lothar exaggerated a bit (big surprise \:\) ). His claim that his top wing was blown off is not entirely true, as evidenced by the fact that it is still very much there in a crash photo. However, there is IMHO no reason to doubt that his plane suffered serious structural damage that resulted in lift loss and complete loss of aelerons (he used rudder to bank).

Anyway, if it was up to me, here's how I would model it:
Structural failure without combat damage would be rare, and would only happen in rare circumstances. In the case of both the N28 and the DRI actions were taken to fix these issues, and for the most part (but not completely) these fixes were effective.

However ... I would make these two types more prone to serious structural top wing damage in combat. It should not happen every time you hit the top wing, only if they take leading edge damage.


The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
#1391255 - 04/08/04 08:51 PM Re: Wing failures  
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I thought the failures would happen regardless of combat or not \:D

Good point though. I don't know if they would model the wing problems with, say, an Alb D.III, then model the fix for the next one you get.

I just want to out dive a Nieuport in a Pfalz D


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1391256 - 04/08/04 10:42 PM Re: Wing failures  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
I thought the failures would happen regardless of combat or not \:D

Good point though. I don't know if they would model the wing problems with, say, an Alb D.III, then model the fix for the next one you get.

I just want to out dive a Nieuport in a Pfalz D
Initially the wing failures would happen regardless. After fixes were put in place they would still happen without damage, but much more rarely. Assuming that multiple DMs will not be modelled to reflect every design change, I would prefer the that "fixed" version offered.

The sesquiplane failures (Albatros D.III, early DVa, and Nieuports 11 and 17) are entirely different and would happen to undamaged aircraft. These failures were the result of lower wing spars failing in prolonged dives (not in pullouts as modeled by RB). Even in the case of the sesquiplanes the aircraft were not made of tissue paper. They didn't fall apart as soon as you put the nose down. But yes, one should be able to out dive a Nieuport in a Pfalz \:\) .


The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
#1391257 - 04/08/04 10:51 PM Re: Wing failures  
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Here's the results of my research into WWI aircraft stress loadings:

Loadings and Accelerations

Along with the contributions of others in relation to this issue.

#1391258 - 04/08/04 11:54 PM Re: Wing failures  
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I just enjoy dropping the nose on my P-47D and out diving that 109. Ahh the smile I get when he rips his wings off....

Oops, wrong time period \:D

My knowledge continues to expand


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1391259 - 04/09/04 03:11 AM Re: Wing failures  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
I just enjoy dropping the nose on my P-47D and out diving that 109. Ahh the smile I get when he rips his wings off....

Oops, wrong time period \:D

My knowledge continues to expand
In a 109 it should be his tail that fall off \:\)


The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
#1391260 - 04/09/04 06:13 AM Re: Wing failures  
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It's funny either way \:D


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1391261 - 04/09/04 01:11 PM Re: Wing failures  
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My interest in particular regarding this would be the wing failures notorious to the Nieuport 28. Eddie Rickenbacker had a lot to say about the fabric suddenly ripping off the top wing if the aircraft were handled too energtically.

I'm fascinated by the times he described people making semi-controlled to controlled landings and surviving. IIRC even he was amazed, and some of the landings occurred at the home field.

I realize it's probably expecting way too much to model this into the Nupe 28 in the game... Since I'm not aware of other aircraft having this bug in this way to this degree, but it would be cool none the less. How the plane could continue to fly, against all apparent logic, makes for interesting thought. I think I see why, but it's interesting to me.


I like cheese too!
#1391262 - 04/09/04 01:33 PM Re: Wing failures  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
Looking for info on the Nieuport Tripe, . . .

Why were you looking for information on the Nieuport triplanes? Just curious.

Droops

#1391263 - 04/09/04 03:13 PM Re: Wing failures  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Droops:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
Looking for info on the Nieuport Tripe, . . .

Why were you looking for information on the Nieuport triplanes? Just curious.

Droops
I was in a hobby store looking for a 1/48 model of a Camel and I spotted it \:D

I never heard of one until then.

In fact it was a model of the USS New Jersey that kicked off my interest in military history.
And the first aerial movie I ever saw wa Ricfthofen vs Brown.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre

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