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#1391161 - 04/03/04 09:52 AM Operational 2-Seaters  
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kail Offline
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Man, I hope KOE uses the 2-seaters right. Both sides had good 2-seaters which were use as escorts and many 2-seater pilots werent afraid to join combat as a fighter.

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#1391162 - 04/03/04 12:39 PM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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FlyXwire Offline
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You're absolutely right kail!

In fact the multi-crew part of KOE may turn out to be one of the most dynamic parts of the sim, especially when manning the fighting two-seaters like the Brisfit, Halberstadt, and Hannover CL series.

Can you imagine going into battle online in a Brisfit with you dead-eye bud in the backseat!!!

With my four-PC LAN here, that means two crews of fighting two-seaters ready to sweep the skies of the Circus!!! \:D

But we can sweep back the other direction flying the black crosses too.......got to love it all! \:\)

This is going to be one cool gaming aspect, if Aspect enables it in multiplayer.

#1391163 - 04/03/04 02:44 PM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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Trajan Offline
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Ground pounding in your two-seater.

Lord I hope so.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1391164 - 04/03/04 03:54 PM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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PatWilson Offline
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usually centered in somebody e...
RedBaron had the start of this but never implemented it properly. There was a category of two seaters that were listed as 'attack planes" that were supposed to be flown more aggressively than their more stable cousins. Some ideas:

Aggressive 2 seaters:
Hannover CLII
Halberstadt CLII
Roland CII
Sopwith Strutter
These two seaters should fly aggressively (AI actively tries to bring forward gun to bear) when attacked. Otherwise they should go about their business.

Special cases:
Bristol F2b: Should often be flown as a fighter except no inverted manuevers. Depends on mission. Brisfits on two seater missions should use the same algorithm as other aggressive two seaters. However, brisfits on scout patrols should use scout algorithms (once again - no inverted \:\) ).

Fe2b: Needs some special AI due to pusher arrangement. Should be flown aggressively into 1916. By 1917 should be flown more like a standard two seater.

Standard two seaters
More or less everything else. These types should either run from fighter contact if outnumbered, or use close formation tactics for mutual support if the AI thinks it can bull it's way through. There needs to be some logic in place in the order of "can I complete my mission and survive?". If the formation starts taking losses they should abandon the mission and try to escape.

This also leads to an interesting discussion of scout AI. Scouts should try to attack two seaters from below. If scouts are attacking a formation of two seaters they should make passes and break off. They should not park behind the two seaters and get torn to pieces by the combined fire of the formation. Parking is OK if attacking a single plane. If the distinction is too hard to code I would prefer to see high speed passes implemented.

As usual, it all revolves around AI AI AI AI ... IMHO these things can be implemented. It just depends on how much effort is dedicated to this element of the game.


The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
#1391165 - 04/03/04 04:13 PM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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Uther Offline
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It would be great if they do incorporate this. In this era the tail gunner was on an almost even keel with a fighter's forward armament.

#1391166 - 04/03/04 07:34 PM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  

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During Bloody April MvR reported that the Sopwith Strutter was the best fighter plane the allieds had.

I just watched a movie about him where a WW1 veteran was recounting his personal experience where the red baron flew high above his group of 2 seaters, then dived through them and zoomed up underneath one, ripping it to pieces with his guns while hanging there. Then he'd fly off, gain alt. and do it again. The guy said he'd never seen such bravery and was quite relieved when MvR had to rtb.

#1391167 - 04/04/04 12:38 AM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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kail Offline
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tactics

baiting: having a single seat or 2-seat a/c seemingly flying alone while a number of mates fly above(need clouds)

AI attack from the sun.
AI German taking up position between Allied flight and the way home.

Here's an idea for immersion I'll posted because the likelyhood of me being in a position to produce a sim of my own is, well a joke.


After a player chooses his pilot's nationally. I would have the program create a random number of siblings, Brother, cousin, brotherinlaw and assign them to a historic unit. Then at each major operation, somme, ypers, etc I would have a random number generated.

AT the end of operations for the day. You enter your "room" screen where your various medals, citations, journals are located and find a 'letter/telegram' imforming you of the loss on your "random name" brother/Cousin/Brotherinlaw. maybe even more tham one:(

Immersion? you bet

kail
(remember you heard it here first) \:D

#1391168 - 04/04/04 12:47 AM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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Trajan Offline
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\:D \:D

How about what you had for breakfast before you fly?

Baked beans anyone?


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1391169 - 04/04/04 01:36 AM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  

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Pacific Strike was a cool old game because between missions you went in the mess hall where you could click on the killboard, Capts. Room, your bunk, etc. but most cool was you could click on your squadmates and it would have a conversation with each of them.

That was sooo cool!

Some were nervous rookies, other burnt out veterans. Some were out for themselves, others cowardly, a couple of them would always be happy, friendly guys wanting to be your buddy.

I loved that game!

#1391170 - 04/04/04 11:09 AM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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FlyXwire Offline
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Hey guys, remember Wings of Glory by Origins? It presented WWI aerial combat from an almost autobiographical viewpoint, where you went through the campaigns interacting with squadron mates, and engaging eminent opponents in dramatic aerial clashes.

Although the sim was a little melodramatic at times, it was also pretty unique in it's approach of immersing the player into the "life and times" of the era through the eyes of one WWI American scout pilot. I think it was ahead of it's times in this regards.

[img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TQANA1UX9...466644361603040[/img]

Maybe we're all getting just a little nostalgic! ;\)

#1391171 - 04/04/04 04:01 PM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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JG1Hautz_J10 Offline
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Germany!
S!

LOL, I loved Wings of Glory. Just remember, don't talk to the French girl!

Hautz

#1391172 - 04/05/04 05:33 AM Re: Operational 2-Seaters  
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Trajan Offline
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Cinemaware's Wings was fun to play.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre

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