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#1390905 - 03/30/04 01:13 PM And the winner is........!!  

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Let's review:

FlyX, ArgonV & Binky insist on a "snapshot in time", as opposed to a whole war, like RB.

....Check

They insist on a limited number of aircraft.

....Check.

They insist on a limited map.

......Judging by the screenshots available, check.

Now all they have to do is point to THEIR software & say "See? our software has more than KOE does!"

......YOU WERE TRICKED. YOU WERE DECIEVED. YOU SIDED WITH PEOPLE WHO DELIBERATELY RUINED OUR CHANCE FOR A SUCCESSOR TO RB.

Let's see......What's the word I'm looking for? oh yes, "TWIT" fits perfectly.




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#1390906 - 03/30/04 02:42 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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Quite a strong case you have, Von Helton

Given my by now infamous 'superior' topic/thread you know where I stand on this.

#1390907 - 03/30/04 03:13 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:
Quite a strong case you have, Von Helton

Given my by now infamous 'superior' topic/thread you know where I stand on this.
I know......I am just so upset it defies words.

#1390908 - 03/30/04 08:16 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Man, do you ever stop?

KOE's developers knew LONG before this forum was put up what their product was going to include. Show me one screenshot that hinted that KOE was going to be released with early-war aircraft? :rolleyes: \:D


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#1390909 - 03/30/04 11:24 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by ArgonV:
Man, do you ever stop?
No.

I will forever point out this debacle for all time, in the hope that people in the future won't be duped into accepting less by idiots like you when they could've had more.

#1390910 - 03/30/04 11:45 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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hey stop talkin bollox von helton.
i wanted early planes.
i wanted the whole map.
im not affiliated to ANY software.

i just dont agree with your rotary plane theory.

so stop talkin crap and actually READ peoples posts.

#1390911 - 03/31/04 12:17 AM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
Quote:
Originally posted by ArgonV:
Man, do you ever stop?
No.

I will forever point out this debacle for all time, in the hope that people in the future won't be duped into accepting less by idiots like you when they could've had more.
Typical infantile lament of the neuron challenged :rolleyes:


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390912 - 03/31/04 12:40 AM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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And yet, VonHelton continues! \:D


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#1390913 - 03/31/04 12:53 AM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Everyone, please check out my other post. If VonHelton can do it and not get banned, so can I! \:D


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#1390914 - 03/31/04 01:53 AM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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It's a classic case of not being able to play and win by the rules.......in that case the looser wants to change the game!

VH find your own game, this one's already taken! \:D

#1390915 - 03/31/04 12:28 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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So Aspect came up and said;

"We can do everything."

"We will do everything."

"It will be fantastic and complete with the most powerful engine ever put in a DrI."

"All German planes will be the best that they have ever been represented as being, as will the Allieds but they will of course be inferior as true history showed and not just to the Fokker DVII which nothing Allied ever came near, even many years later."

And 3 guys said;

"No. Just the end of the war and only this one small part of it."

Then the 3 guys said;

"And damn well make sure there can be no real expanding on it!"

And to really make it unbearable they commanded;

"Pork all the Axis planes! That they shall forever be known as inferior to Allieds! Except maybe the Fokker DVII because we can't hide the Treaty of Versailles! But make the DVII only average good at all things, not the best at anything and that will show those Huns!"

So Aspect changed the whole development program to suit.

Interesting. Very interesting.

If there's going to be a WWI sim with a narrow focus then it should only be on Bloody April, nein?

:rolleyes:


Neal

#1390916 - 03/31/04 01:25 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
Quote:
Originally posted by ArgonV:
Man, do you ever stop?
No.

I will forever point out this debacle for all time, in the hope that people in the future won't be duped into accepting less by idiots like you when they could've had more.
All right, now I've got to say something...

Just who do you think you are that you can tell a software company what you want in a sim, and they'll slap their heads and say "What were we thinking? Why, if Von Helton wants the whole war with every square foot of land modelled and every plane that made if off a drawing board, by God we have to GIVE it to him! Never mind that we're going to have to re-do our code from the ground up! Never mind that we have to do deep research on about 3000 planes since God knows Von Helton won't accept a mere survey sim!

Why, the creator of Return of the Jastas has spoken!"

I've got news for you, bud. When someone sets out to do a project, it's THEIR project, and they've already worked out in their mind pretty much how they're going to do it, what they're going to emphasize.

They'll MAYBE set up or visit a forum about their game to generate publicity FIRST, then maybe glean an idea or two IF IT DOESN'T DISTRACT THEM FROM THEIR COURSE.

What you're asking for is a major, time consuming change in their project, and they'd be fools to do it. At that rate, they'd never finish the sim, and they'd go out of business.

Don't you think it's bloody obvious that we'd ALL like a sim that modelled the globe all at once, French, Italian, AND Russian fronts, flying boats, tanks, individual soldiers running on the ground, the physics of rain drops hitting the airplane accurately modelled?

Oh, I'd LOVE that! Except I probably wouldn't live long enough to see it released, it'd be buggy as all get-out since the more complicated the program, the more likely the bugs. And I'd have to break the family budget buying a new computer with the horsepower to run it smoothly, if such a thing is even made yet. Oh, and the company would go bankrupt.

Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
I will forever point out this debacle for all time, in the hope that people in the future won't be duped into accepting less by idiots like you when they could've had more.
I thought you were just an eccentric aerophile. No, you're a jerk, too!


I like cheese too!
#1390917 - 03/31/04 02:59 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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What is that saying?

Oh yeah; If you want something done right you hsve to do it yourself.

As they say in Il2 land, "Make your own sim."

We can look forward to many postings of, as Pen put it, "Blah blah nonsense blah, blah" if it is not done his way.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390918 - 03/31/04 03:15 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Wing Chaps:
I thought you were just an eccentric aerophile. No, you're a jerk, too!
I'll say this one more time. If you still don't get it, I figure your beyond hope.

KOE set these forums up to find out what we want.

3 loud mouthed jerks pipped up & said we wanted a snapshot in time, and one person (ME) wanted the whole air war, or at least what RB had.

When others chimed in with the 3 people, that's what KOE went with.

To put it bluntly, I was outvoted.

#1390919 - 03/31/04 03:28 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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"Blah! Blah! Nonsense. Blah!"


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390920 - 03/31/04 05:16 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
I'll say this one more time. If you still don't get it, I figure your beyond hope.

KOE set these forums up to find out what we want.

3 loud mouthed jerks pipped up & said we wanted a snapshot in time, and one person (ME) wanted the whole air war...
No, it is YOU who are beyond hope. You mischaracterize what these people said and want, because it's not what YOU want. I stopped by this forum in it's earliest days and saw you vehemently protesting that the list of airplanes wasn't NEAR what you wanted. All along you've wanted MORE, MORE, MORE, and scream like a banshee when someone fails to agree with you.

Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
I will forever point out this debacle for all time, in the hope that people in the future won't be duped into accepting less by idiots like you when they could've had more.
If YOU can't see how this makes you sound, it is YOU who are beyond hope.

And, I doubt very seriously that KOE would ever have though "You know, we'd like to do a sim about only one year of WWI, with maybe only a dozen aircraft flyable. Geez, though, let's set up a forum, and if the folks there want the whole war, with maybe one or two extra years thrown in in case the Germans could have held out, and maybe 777 aircraft flyable, well we'll just give it to 'em. I mean, whatever they want on the forum we'll GIVE it to 'em!"

All anyone needs to ask is "Just WHY did VonHelton start this thread?"


I like cheese too!
#1390921 - 03/31/04 05:20 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Wing Chaps:
All anyone needs to ask is "Just WHY did VonHelton start this thread?"
That's simple......I give credit where credit is due. They won, and got their piece of a game.

What's not to understand?

.....You must be one of those Kool-Aide drinkers, I bet.

#1390922 - 03/31/04 05:21 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
.....You must be one of those Kool-Aide drinkers, I bet.
Scotch. Neat.

I'm struggling to find the relevance of that, though...


I like cheese too!
#1390923 - 03/31/04 07:13 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Scotch and cheese.

A winning combination.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390924 - 03/31/04 07:29 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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scotch cheese and valium for me...never met anyone like him in my whole life.

#1390925 - 03/31/04 09:12 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Has there been any word on expandability besides that it will be?

Like who will be able to make expansions and what kind?

Or what 3D suite would be required, because those models look just a teeny bit more involved than the RB3 planes, IMHO?

Or will it be like IL2 where the actual FM/DM and workings go through a central control that may or may not stay in support beyond a short limited time? It has it's strengths yes, but I'd be happier if the addon ball could be passed to at least a small company when Aspect moves on if they do.

=================================================

I have a very hard time seeing a game engine capable of simulating 1917-1918 and yet unable to cover the entire war with addons. Going from WWI to WWII I could see a problem and if the planning is narrow then lighter than air craft and some interesting ground objects could be ruled out -- I just don't think anyone would do that nowadays.

In the past things had to have tighter limits just due to what they ran on. Hard choices had to be made early not just due to the hardware but also to the OS they ran on. The machines we run on are scaled for incredibly more than what was around when RB2 was started and the software tools are likewise advanced. Nobody writing advanced sims today or in the past few years should be making the kinds of choices that cuts out what used to have to be.

RB2 came out just after memory had blossomed and the Pentiums finally really began to spread and it had been IIRC SEVEN YEARS from the groundwork to release. There's no need to project the possibilities or limits of efforts started in the last 5 years by the limits of what was started back over 10 years ago. It's like trying to project what WWII hardware would be like if the basic technology was limited to what was available before 1930.

If the sim doesn't come out expandable then it's not because of people here. The modularity required for it is only good coding practice that leads to a better and more maintainable project, easier to debug and faster to produce. It will be there. But perhaps enough fighting and yet another WWI sim can turn into a half-arcade, cracked FM cross between a hawk and a turkey like a sim I can think of and then expandable or not the addons never come, the way to make them ends up being fished out by users who have to deal with a black box executable and someone goes around saying the sim could never be expanded.


My big plea for this sim:
-----------------------------------------------
From what I saw with RB3 development, and I got to see a bit more than average, the real killer came about with the huge push for making the planes match the tables. The engine had to be twisted in unhealthy ways that meant the flying was going to suffer, that power low or off was going to be even worse and that bad performance in many areas was going to be matched by exploitable cracks in the FM. That's what can happen with a physics based engine forced to meet DEMANDS by a bunch oh anal-historics with tables and perfection complexes. Not ruined from the start, but definitely by the end with multiple seperate camps that couldn't be pleased. SO FOR EVERYONE'S SAKE, JUST BE WILLING TO LET THIS BE WHAT IT CAN!
-------------------------------------------------


Neal

#1390926 - 03/31/04 09:35 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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That is why I hope they keep the FM/DM in house. Let 3rd part modders make the aircraft, vehicles, or whatnot, IF they meet the graphic standards.

It takes a long time to model an aircraft for Il2 because the standards are high. I hope Aspect follows, or is following, that path.

Get the game out of the gate first. If it sells well, more addons and support will follow.

I plan to buy it the day it hits the store.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390927 - 03/31/04 10:05 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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To respond to some of your questions Neal; no, we've been given little to no information on KOE's expandability, or modability, but there's been a ton of discussion on these topics here already.

Problem is, there's a typical six month lag time in most people's comprehension.

#1390928 - 04/01/04 03:29 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
If it sells well, more addons and support will follow.
Apect already has plans to do other games. When the KOE staff are done with KOE, they will move on to another game.

Judging by what other companies have done, we'll get one or two bugg fixes, but no add-ons.

If we're lucky, they may assign a secondary team to adress any problems we may have......But that secondary team will not have the knowledge like the first team did.

#1390929 - 04/01/04 03:32 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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ahhhhhhh...what a ray of sunshine...

#1390930 - 04/01/04 03:44 PM Re: And the winner is........!!  
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Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
If it sells well, more addons and support will follow.
Apect already has plans to do other games. When the KOE staff are done with KOE, they will move on to another game.

Judging by what other companies have done, we'll get one or two bugg fixes, but no add-ons.

If we're lucky, they may assign a secondary team to adress any problems we may have......But that secondary team will not have the knowledge like the first team did.
BF1942, IL2FB, MOH, EU2, etc says you are wrong.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
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