All I know is, when WW1 for IL2 was on IL2center, FlyXWire came over there and stirred up trouble with modellers. Now he is here. What his problem is I don't know but he definately feels the need to push his agenda.

As for VH, well, what can I say that hasn't already been said?

I can't believe this thread is over 200 posts long and it amounts to blah, blah, blah. Then again, maybe I can believe it.

Wish the moderators would be as swift to step in here as they are on all the other boards.

I've seen the posts on the old IL2 Center boards FlyXwire has made. I think a lot of people there took them as pushing his agenda and stepping on their toes (A lot of 3d modelers feel high and mightly from my own experience), but I personally didnt think so. He was merely compairing mapping layouts and the level of detail that had been accomplished, to what he expected the IL-2 WWI models to be like and fucntion from his own experience. Now I do agree there is a time and a place for it. If he just posted here in a new post and said "Look what I can do!!" I would have to agree that's pushing his own agenda. However Toadvine asked a genuine question about FS-WWI regarding if he needed the CD for it and about the detail. FlyXwire responded. Why not!?

As for VonHelton and his logic, I totally agree Binky Bartlett and Ironhand... Maybe I will take the time and effort gathering info and proving him wrong... At least that would show how arrogant and ignorant he has been about this whole subject! :rolleyes:

I did find some Dr.I info I never knew about.
The second paragraph actually.

However, many of the other pilots were less impressed with the aircraft, while it had good manoeuvrability and an impressive rate of climb, the plane was still slower than most contemporary Allied fighters.

In late October 1917 Leutnants Heinrich Gontermann and Günther Pastor were killed when their Dr.Is broke up in the air at the end of October, and the planes were withdrawn from service. Modifications were then made to the wings for added strength, but the failures continued in service and the triplane never recovered in the eyes of the pilots, and was not supplied to many Jagdstaffeln.

The cause of the wing failures was said to be from poor quality control rather than deficiencies in design. However, the failures always occurred in the upper wing of the aircraft. In 1929, NACA investigations found that the upper wing carried a higher wing loading than the lower wing, at high speeds it could be 2.55 times as much.

Here is a song sung by German soldiers at Verdun.
G_dd_mn the English, the French, and Uncle Willie's Air Force!!"

All ArgonV and I want is proof of the allegations he has made. Every thing he has stated has been refuted. From add-ons to the D.V.

And poor ArgonV gets called a coward for his efforts.

Both Fly and myself have posted info on the D series. We have even listed sources that can be checked by anyone.

To back up his claim, he points to a website as a source. A website done by him. That is laughable. To say nothing of sad.

I have met people like that. The ones I met insist that a certain event is a hoax. So I guess if we go to a website that says it was a hoax, that makes it above reproach. The event really was a hoax.

Opinions are fine. We all have them. So is an open mind. Not everyone has one.

S!

Don't flatter yourselves. I bet the Aspects guys have a lot better things to do than read this thread. They probably got to about the second infantile exchange of barbs and stopped reading.

Hautz

In a way I'm sorta glad the moderators have not stepped in here... Without them, we've all come to know VonHelton and how he really is!

I got news for ya........What you found is just the tip of the iceberg.

......And ArgonV & Binky are helping him.

Yea, you've shown the whole world that when you treat someone like ****, they get pissed off.

WOW! What a revelation! I bet no one knew THAT would happen!!

:rolleyes:

Just as I predicted, here we go attacking the one remaining german rotary.........

Gee, I think I predicted this would happen a few hundred posts ago!

What is with you bunch & your HATRED for german rotaries? Are you pissed off that your ancestors got their butts handed to them on a regular basis?

As for the quote above, it's a LIE. You know, one of those things that is opposite of a truth?

The wing problem on the Dr1 was fixed. The pilots didn't fear the Dr1, nor the Razor after corrections were made.

Wing failures DID NOT CONTINUE after corrections were made......That's a bold-faced LIE.

Udet had at least 3 Dr1's, MvR had 3, Jacobs had 2, and I could go on & on with other pilots. If the plane was feared, the pilots sure had plenty of them!

You bunch of clowns would LOVE to get the Dr1 taken away......Then all the germans would have left is unmanuverable aircraft to fly, and you all could sweep in like Errol Flynn.

"Here I come to save the day!"

......Sheesh.

:rolleyes:

You bunch love to tick me off, but MvR agrees with me.......Observe:

"Our airplanes are inferior to the English in a downright ridiculous manner.... Besides better quality aircraft they have quantity. Our fighter pilots, though quite good, are consequently lost!

The [Albatros]D.5 is so antiquated and laughably inferior that we can do nothing with it. Yet the people in the homeland haven't produced any better machine than this lousy Albatros in almost a year.... What's going on with Fokker?

He has two machines that are superior to the Albatros, and neither has been produced. There is his unbraced biplane.... It is unquestionably faster and has better qualities in the curve than the Albatros D5, and yet is not built. I believe Schwarzenberger [within the Inspectorate of Flying Troops] is behind this.

Furthermore, he [Fokker] has a triplane that is certainly no longer in the formative stages and has already shown exceptional climb and speed, that must be unreservedly supported and sent to the front in large numbers as soon as we have rotary engines.

You would not believe how low morale is among the fighter pilots presently at the front because of their sorry machines. No one wants to be a fighter pilot any more."

-von Richthofen

Note that the Allied machines referred to are ROTARY AIRCRAFT!!

Note that the 2 german planes Manfred mentions are ROTARY AIRCRAFT!!

......Fokker Dr1 & Fokker D6.

So why do you bunch hate german rotary aircraft? Because like MvR says, they are superior to inlines in manuverability, and you don't want that if you fly allied. You want to be able to beat the germans in the air, and it NEVER HAPPENED.

This whole board is FILLED with how much you despise any attempt to get german rotary aircraft included, and the ones that ARE included, you find the weakest numbers you can find for each one.

This is commonly referred to as "skewing history", and every last one of you should be ashamed of yourselves, but I know you aren't, since this BS has been going on for YEARS.

You bunch of jerks sicken me to no end.......





And when is the signature box gonna be fixed so we can display our sigs?

Hey Pen,

FlyXwire came by SWWISA and eventually left. The impression I got was he was blindly following his on opinion of what should be done no matter how the guys at SWWISA tried to explain the limitation of the RB3D and what could be done. It might just be the way he comes across in his posts (imo). Either way he's not helping his case (to me) by this behavior here.

James, step up and ignore the comments, I'm getting tempted to call the mods myself and you're not helping yourself by responding to every post. Step up.

~
kail

who in their right mind would want the dr1 removed?
it was a proven german success and a great plane.

note the word proven...its history is well documented.

if you want folks to believe von helton you must give them facts.

backed up by reputable sources.

otherwise you could say that your beliefs are just that ...YOUR beliefs and only a theory.
personally i would have no problem at all with this.

but to state that your beliefs are hard facts repeatedly and without a shred of evidence is tiresome and pointless.

the d5 was a trainer...all the evidence suggests so....its not rocket science...if a plane was used as a trainer it would be docile and easy to fly.
precisely why it was no good in combat (i can think of exceptions to this but generally it holds up).
you state on your wonderful d5 page it was lighter so therefore faster...you are showing your ignorance of flight principles here big time.

aerodynamics play a big part in that equasion..by your logic i have a box kite here capable of mach 1.

you see contrary to what you believe i think...the germans were not stupid at all..and if that d5 was any good they would have seen service all over the place and been a real threat...the lack of information and documentation about them speaks volumes.

the only conclusion is that these planes did not come up to scratch and were ignored.

for the umpteenth time if you have carefully read this post feel free to reply to any of the points with factual evidence...that means backed up by a reputable source..otherwise drop it.

facts facts facts.sources sources sources.

Alright.

oh so no facts then?

Who wants the Dr.1 removed? I certainly see no post stating as such VonHelton! :rolleyes: Again you have proved to us all you dont actually READ the posts here... You just draw your own conclusions once more... I have no doubt there were many German types that were superior to the Allied types. Then again I know there were many Allied types that were superior to the German types. It's all one endless circle... The Germans build a better aircraft and so now must the Allies, the Allies build a better aircraft and so now must the Germans... In the end NO ONE comes out on top, expect the winners of the war. I wonder who won World War One anyway? :rolleyes:

Hey look, for ONCE you quoted a source that's creditable! The Baron himself no less... You even stated that the quote was SAID by the Baron too! This is a VonHelton FIRST everybody... I think he is getting the idea now, eh? Now he just needs to cite where he got the quote from as I know VonHelton didnt personally ask the Baron.

Who's treating who badly here? I'm not cursing to no end, I certainly am not upset or angry. I am simply asking for creditable sources. You on the other hand have been cursing left and right anyone who does not share your total view on the matter. :rolleyes: IMO this certainly will get you banned... E-mail off to the MODs!

BvH

Sonny, no one wants the Dr1 banned. Why would they? Who said so?

If you are the great detective you claim to be, you would realize that MvR WANTED the D7. You know, a non rotary powered aircraft.

If you are the great detective you claim to be, you would realize that the in-line powered aircraft vastly outnumbered the rotary powed ones in the GAS.

So now NACA is part of a conspiracy too? The Dr was not a magical plane. Deal with it. The only reason it is famous is because of two people, Voss and MvR.

The D6??? Such a great plane ony 59 or so were built.You do remember the fighter competition of 1918? The one where an inline was chosen?

So Manfred had 3 Tripes. An indication of its reliability perhaps?

You need to either take a pill or grow up. You are unwilling to listen to ANY viewpoint that differs from your own. No matter what proof is offered, you scream, rant and rage. If God Himself told you anything different from your own views, you would do treat him the same way you treat us mere mortals.

Chew on this. By Spring 1918 more than 1,050 Alb Dv and Va were in service. Which is far more than the number of Dr.Is built. And Albatros switched over to produce the Fokker.

Guess which one. It was not the Tripe.

BTW, in every WW1 game I have had, I used the Tripe. Chew on that too son.

the rules of debate are such that anyone wishing to prove a theory (and it IS a theory until proved otherwise) is then obliged to prove it with hard evidence.
it is up to the person to prove himself right...by producing the proof.
NOT the other way round.

if no proof is forthcoming then that should be the end of the matter and the subject remains a THEORY.

this is our problem here...someone (despite repeated efforts to let him prove himself) keeps beating us over the head with a THEORY.

is it any wonder that folks get frustrated and lose their patience?

Where in you so called MvR missive does it mention Allied rotary aircraft?

"Our airplanes are inferior to the English in a downright ridiculous manner.... Besides better quality aircraft they have quantity. Our fighter pilots, though quite good, are consequently lost!

The [Albatros]D.5 is so antiquated and laughably inferior that we can do nothing with it. Yet the people in the homeland haven't produced any better machine than this lousy Albatros in almost a year.... What's going on with Fokker?

He has two machines that are superior to the Albatros, and neither has been produced. There is his unbraced biplane.... It is unquestionably faster and has better qualities in the curve than the Albatros D5, and yet is not built. I believe Schwarzenberger [within the Inspectorate of Flying Troops] is behind this.

Furthermore, he [Fokker] has a triplane that is certainly no longer in the formative stages and has already shown exceptional climb and speed, that must be unreservedly supported and sent to the front in large numbers as soon as we have rotary engines.

You would not believe how low morale is among the fighter pilots presently at the front because of their sorry machines. No one wants to be a fighter pilot any more."

Exceptional speed? Compared to what? Even the Camel was faster.

Low morale? Yet you claim they were no beaten in the air, despite the so called sorry machines.

I never read that in any book on MvR.

It also ignores the fact that he is on record as wanting the D7 as the next front line fighter.

You claim you want to honor the German WW1 pilots. You are doing the opposite.

"So why do you bunch hate german rotary aircraft? Because like MvR says, they are superior to inlines in manuverability, and you don't want that if you fly allied. You want to be able to beat the germans in the air, and it NEVER HAPPENED"...