"Knights Over Europe" isn't going to ship with over a hundred aircraft, nor is it going to ship with just eight. We are intentionally choosing to go the route of quality over quantity, in all areas of the game, which we hope players will appreciate. We aren't ready to discuss the specific aircraft lineup right now but I can tell you that our selections have been deliberate 'balance' choices.

Anybody remember that post by Aspect?

I won't care if, lets say, I could not fly as a Prussian, Bavarian, or a country boy from Tennessee. I won't care if it does not have planes that I never heard of. If it has at least the RB planes, with some flyable two seaters, I'd buy it.

There is nothing wrong with sequals, witness IL2. If the game sells well, sequals we shall have. More planes and maps can be added.

Look at Il2 FB. It didn't start with 100+ flyable planes. It was 29 or so IIRC. But with AEP, you have 115 flyable, not counting the AI only planes.

And none of them are fancy paperweights.

The only person who has been making "prophesy" on this forum is quoted above!

The only person who has claimed KOE is doomed to "be only a game, and not a sim", is quoted above!

The only person who has no confidence that Aspect can create the next benchmark WWI sim without his assitance, is quoted above!

VH has been making "straw man" arguments from the very beginning here. Arguments and demands that will always remain unattainable, because they are meant to be so! Arguments that therefore will never be fullfilled because no simulation can ever duplicate reality........

I find this attempt to denegrate Aspect's work most apalling.......and before any of us have even an inkling of what KOE will be when it's finally completed!

No one is going to force any of us to buy KOE when it's released!

If you've have no confidence from the beginning that Aspect can make a good WWI sim, then go out and make your own!

In the meantime leave the heavy lifting to the real experts............that's where I'll be putting my money!!!

To quote the rock group Aerosmith, "Dream On".



Gaming companies gravitate to the least common denominator, to save overhead. So, let's review the "suggestions" we have to date:

1. One year of Flight Time. (RB had 3)

2. If 1 above is true, 15 aircraft tops (RB2/3D had 30+)

3. Someone suggested only the Flanders Map (RB2/3D had all 4 maps)

4. Someone (gee, i wonder who that was? I know it wasn't me!!) suggested it would take years to build one fighter aircraft, so you can kiss heavy bombers like the Gotha goodbye. (RB2/3D had the Gotha & HP)

5. Someone suggested animated ground objects were a waste of time, so you can kiss infantry & moving tanks goodbye (RB2 at these at first). This effectively takes the "Living Airfield" concept & flushes it down the pisser as well.

Now then........Did I offer any of these limitations? No, I did not. So when the hammer falls, you won't be able to point in my direction.

Well you aint Aerosmith, and you aint designing KOE, so "Dream On" is all you've got!

Besides we're all waiting for some genuine updates on KOE, and not on the musings from the lunatic fringe.

For the sake of clarity, I'll simplify the numbers:

WW1 Air Combat Fanbase: 50 people
WW2 Air Combat Fanbase: 3,000 people

Granted, WW1 interest is growing, but it'll never be to the size & scope of WW2, so your comparison is flawed.

Oh my gosh somebody pinch me, because I must be dreaming!

S!

vH, I think there are a lot more than 50 people interested in ww1 aviation. :p
Red Baron is still alive and kicking, and we can still get the entire fanbase out on war nights .
Don't forget Europe. Red Baron is still popular in Europe, much more than here. They still have huge squads there, and can recruit 3-4 guys a month, like in the hey-day of RB.
There have already been some organized "WW1" nights with the bipes from the IL-2 expansion packs.
WW1 will probably never be as big as WWII, but then again, it doesn't have to.
You guys crack me up! If I gave you and Fly $100 dollars to split between the two of you, you'd fight about which $50 you'all got.

Hautz

We could've had "Der Ubermensch" of flight sims, but it seems I've been outvoted, and all we'll get is a lump of coal.

......But at least I'll have a shiny new coaster for my soda.

"If I gave you and Fly $100 dollars to split between the two of you, you'd fight about which $50 you'all got."

LMAO! What a priceless quote. Would 100 one dollar bills be preferable to two fifties? Or compromise with 20 fivers?

Anyways, I think the key word in Aspects quote is "balance". This gives us a pretty good idea what they intend right there. For one thing, each side will have a balanced set of bombers. For fighters, obviously, the Camel balances the Dr1. You know it will have the D7 and Albatros series, as well as the SE5a. What balances these out? And early planes need balance too. Anyone have a list in mind?

Yes, it certainly does.........The germans will get the shaft yet again. We'll be stuck flying outdated Albatros & Pfalz machines because the Fokker D6, Pfalz D8, & SSW aircraft won't be available.

We'll get our assets kicked royally, WHICH NEVER HAPPENED IN REAL LIFE, because the planes we should've had are not in the game. If our jastas somehow manage to survive, we'll finally get the Fokker D7, but which one? The BMW version? For some reason, I don't think so.....

But! It gets WORSE.

I have yet to see a screenshot of a Fokker E3. Which means the only rotary we get is the Fokker Dr1, against all those allied rotary aircraft. The Eindekker was more manuverable than the Halberstadt, which means we are sitting ducks in 1916 until the Alb D2 shows up.

Oh yea, sounds like fun.......IF YOU FLY ALLIED.

If you fly German, you might as well change your name to Ben Dover.

It's getting to the point where I will be grateful to see KOE materialize in just about any form...

S! vH

You keep mentioning that we lost out and that certain aspects (no pun intended) were voted down.
I'm not trying to be funny or flame you, but when and where did that happen?
I have the impression that Aspects is keeping the lid pretty tight on this one, and not subject to the whims of their public, as it were.

Hautz

What does numbers of people have to do with it. There are more than 50 people interested in WW1 air combat. And you should know that. Just look at WoV. And if only 50 people were interested, there would be NO Knights over Europe even thought of. Let alone developed.

Re read what you said about sequals et al. Then tell me how the comparision is wrong. The game engine has recognized all the aircraft beyond what was first offered. Or hasn't it?

The game does allow front lines. Moving front lines. Or doesn't it?
Movable vehicles and ships. Or doesn't it?

You claim sequals can't do it. This game shows otherwise.

By the way, on this board and the offical IL2 one, if you add up the number of people who want an Oleg designed WW1 game, it is far more than 50.

And the comparison works just fine.

And when I play RB, I always fly Hun. I never felt I got the shaft at any time. I am also in a Hun squad. The only shaft I feel is because of the screwed up FM/DM. Not because the Fokker DVI, of which only 59 were built, and was beat in the competition of Jan 1918 by the DVII, is not in the game.

I can only hope that KOE is closer to Il2 than RB. No aircraft slots. Flyable two seaters. recon/bombing missions. On and on.

They will be judged by what they put out first. And as they put quality over quantity, they will do well.

Well, I don't think I'd have pushed my arguments as strongly if it was all over phoney money!

Of course it's not a matter of senseless fighting either, but in not allowing misrepresentations of history, disinformation, and general rude treatment of others to go on unchecked.

You guys are coming to the party a little late, but by all means step up and do your part........if you dare!

S!

Right on the money

Exactly!

Again, there's been a ton of excellent and exciting flight sims that have been released since Red Baron hit the shelf years ago.

The only thing that KOE and RB should have in common now, is that they're both covering WWI air combat!

.......And therein lies the problem. You've been given the impression that the Albatros & Pfalz D3 are the only planes with any significance at the Front.

Here's my email:

hel0695@charter.net

We need to talk about some other things, anyway........

Those of you who question the significance of the German rotary aircraft:

Get ROTJ III Beta. Download it & install it in a FRESH INSTALL of RB3D.

Unzip straight to Simpatch.......DO NOT USE CM.

Fly a few missions & see what you are missing!!!

......I guarantee you, your opinions will change..........RADICALLY!

You're over-reacting, WAAAY over-reacting.

Von Helton's discussion about the German's getting the shaft is so much babble, IMO. However, his simple premise that he (and I, and others) want MORE than what's been offered in the past is not unreasonable. In fact, its right on the money.

The devil is in the details, but it is not unreasonable to ask for more.

Droops